More to come?
The National Hurricane Center is reporting that there are currently 3 powerfull tropical storms in the Atlantic with two of them already having reached hurricane strength.
From The Wasington Post
Hurricane Maria intensified Monday over the open Atlantic, while the 14th tropical storm of the season developed south of Bermuda, forecasters said.
Maria is the fifth hurricane of the Atlantic hurricane season, one of the busiest on record. Historically, only about four or five named storms form by this time of year, according to the hurricane center. Peak storm activity typically occurs from the end of August through mid-September.
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September 9th, 2005 at 3:17 am
People need to come together now, and really start praying!
September 9th, 2005 at 3:23 am
Maria and Nate look like they are safely out in the Atlantic, unless they shift back to the west. Ophelia is a different story. Looks like she could still hit the Atlantic coast.
September 9th, 2005 at 7:24 am
Praying that Ophelia goes into the open waters of the Atlantic as well. I am right on the coast in florida on a barrier island. Hopefully if they do issue an evacuation there will be enough gas.
September 9th, 2005 at 9:03 am
Like praying is gonna do anything. I see it did a lot of good for New Orleans and the gulf coast. Wait a minute, Didn’t the god you guys pray to cause all this destruction and death? I though so. I live in florida and say bring it on. Its just a little wind and rain. I made it thru all 3 last year.
September 9th, 2005 at 10:16 am
I hope they both land in Crawford. Or 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
September 9th, 2005 at 12:23 pm
Didn’t the god you guys pray to cause all this destruction and death? I though so.
******************************************
Think about Yugoslavia 1999…
God is not only a “sweet candy giver”, punishment is also in His hand.
September 9th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
now we’re blaming God…give me a break…in all things God also gives choices…there were choices that could have been made before and after Katrina…and there are choices that can be made before the next one..God gave man the common sense to make the right choices but seems that common sense isn’t being used…guess You think that is Gods fault to? I don’t think so
September 9th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
Reality Checker…I wonder how many people that didn’t make it through Katrina said bring it on I made it through Camell? again they had choices and they chose to stay…that was their choice not Gods…
September 9th, 2005 at 8:48 pm
God was punishing New Orleans for all the things people were doing during Mardi Gras and all those other festivals that were pointless
September 9th, 2005 at 9:20 pm
Hazel, Why would a loving and merciful God choose to punish innocents? Doesn’t make sense to me. As for festivals, one man’s pointless endeavor is another man’s enjoyable experience.
I am one of those folks who hopes the city doesn’t lose any of its unique flavor in the rebuilding, and I hope that those New Orleanians who can’t or don’t move back to New Orleans will share that flavor wherever they happen to settle.
September 9th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
According to the Weather Channel, Maria is expected to become a large, powerful extratropical cyclone. I don’t know exactly what that means, but it doesn’t sound good. She is heading toward Iceland.
September 9th, 2005 at 10:07 pm
If that were the case Hazel, it would be happening everywhere,,,there is SIN going on in every city and town in the world.
September 9th, 2005 at 10:27 pm
Why is not surprising that the radical “Christian” nutjobs are already blaming abortion and sin for the catastrophe in NO? I guess all those people drowing in their attics were sinners. Those people that are dying of thirst and hunger while FEMA sits on their ass and Bush strums a guitar are all sinners too I guess. The Sinners here are the Bush administration and his cronies he put in power at FEMA who have no credentials to have these jobs. How long are the people of this country going to buy his BS and keep making excuses for him? Why are some sheriff’s in surrounding Parishes arming themselves against FEMA? Why did FEMA cut their emergency communication lines? Why did FEMA turn back fuel and water and boats and rescuers? This whole thing is DISGUSTING. It must be nice to sit in your nice air conditioned house probably with a giant SUV parked outside and pass judgement on other people. Did it ever once occur to you that these people had no means to get out of the city? They were left there to die by OUR government…I guess when you’ve never been in that situation of having nothing it’s easy to be judgemental and smug…VERY typical CHRISTIAN attitude keep up the good work…
September 9th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
when will humanity realize that god has nothinng to do with science. religion should always be separeted from each other because they alway contradict one another……you guys think its possible for some kind of weapon could cause hurricanes or other type of “natural” disaster …think about it. how many secrets has the gov kept from us
September 9th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
The idea that these people are being punished by some sort of deity is absurd, given the way in which an incompetent administration helped him out through wanton neglect. A real deity wouldn’t have required such mundane assistance.
September 9th, 2005 at 11:24 pm
i feel that bush and the troops are doing an excellent job.i am considering appointing him as the antichrist.
September 9th, 2005 at 11:32 pm
you all should listen to the words of debbie custer she is a great prohet of my ministry
September 9th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
I didn’t say they were sinners, i was responding to hazel…There were choices all around to be made..yes there were ones that didn’t have the means to get out…that is where the MAYOR had decisions to make and he didn’t make them…The blame doesn’t go on God for this…its goes to MAN
September 9th, 2005 at 11:34 pm
and Lucifer…you can kiss my ass
September 9th, 2005 at 11:38 pm
I sure hope those “security” moms are feeling more secure now lmao
September 9th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
if bush told all you brainwashed nazis to line up for a new tattoo for your forehead that it would make america a safer place to live. you would all just fall in line including you debbie.
September 10th, 2005 at 12:29 am
damn debbie looks like lucifer is startin to recruit nazis now
September 10th, 2005 at 12:37 am
I can’t beleive you blame anyone other than the people who live off the government and then cry for more help. Did you not see the filth they left behind, does the government need to help them pick up their trash also.
September 10th, 2005 at 12:46 am
Isn’t welfare wonderful? Create an environment where most everyone waits to be given and this is what you have. Now they wait for help, and don’t forget their children learn what they live. It’s not god and it’s not the government. It’s human beings taking the easy way through life. Living off of a government check instead of trying to earn a living.
September 10th, 2005 at 1:11 am
sept 24th the masses are going to march on washington.in the wake of 40000 deaths. if you had friends or family invovled in the massacre down there you would march such as i. i would estimate 12 -20 american citizens for each life that was lost.supporters of bush can go on intellectuializing of whos fault it was to avoid facing the truth but your in a dream world.Make any argument you can convince your self to believe or to clear your consiensce or for whatever reason you do.this is not going to be a anti-propaganda support the troops bring them home watered down shehan protest.this is going to be the real thing bring the nazis to justice.we have faced the war pigs before in vietnam and we kicked there ass back then.same bastards have taken over again.just think where we would be now if we hadnt stood them down in nam.we will have to mobilize again.we will take the capitol back for the american people on september 24th.as our constitutional right we will mobilize militias to numbers the nazis will not be able to muster and we will bring democracy back to american citizens.
September 10th, 2005 at 1:16 am
the first thing the nazis did was take away the guns of its citizens.
Now to my recolection, bush has not done that.
In fact its been the LIBERALs who have been trying so hard to ban guns.
and the nazis were socialists, just like the “progressive” liberals.
You tree huggin, sprout eating, pot smokin NEO hippies should learn to educate yourselves before calling republicans “Nazis”
Dillusional episodes (”Bush started the hurricane”,”How many secrets does the gov keep from us”) are typical symptoms of unperscribed drug use mixed with chemical imbalances in the brain. That means ALL OF THE LIBERALS
September 10th, 2005 at 1:20 am
oh hey aaron, you bring up Vietnam, who was it who got us into Vietnam?
Oh, you dont know because your an idiot…
well, it was Kenedy. But then Johnson got us even deeper into that conflict. But then it was the EVIL Richard Nixon who brought us out of it.
GOD DAMN, aaron you are such a freakin retard.
September 10th, 2005 at 1:28 am
http://www.military.com/Opinions/0,,Topol_090705,00.html
September 10th, 2005 at 1:39 am
The first thing you should do Aaron is get an education. Learn to read and write effectively (not like an eight year old). That way you can follow the road signs on your march and when you finally get there you won’t spout off about fourty thousand deaths that did not occur. You have proffessed your ignorance not only about current events but also about the past. I wonder if you could even find Viet Nam on a world map.
And by the way Aaron I have a thirty year old former Navy Seal nephew who called Gulf Port home. He had enough common sense to leave prior to the storm. Since he has nothing now he has moved on to Jackson and has already found a job. No crying about the past just getting on with his life. The difference between people like him and people like you? He has the balls to go it alone.
September 10th, 2005 at 1:51 am
Aaron, Massacre? Katrina was a natural disaster. That disaster affected the entire gulf coastal region. Let’s not forget that Florida is still dealing with her, too. So far as I know there have been no massacres on US soil since the 19th century.
September 10th, 2005 at 1:57 am
What if another storm hits the USA.
September 10th, 2005 at 2:07 am
werealldoomed, Not if, more likely when, another storm hits us we will do what we always do, fix it afterwards. I’m not wishing a hurricane on anyone, but hopefully, if another one makes landfall this year, it will not be on the gulf coast or near those parts of Florida that are still dealing with last year.
September 10th, 2005 at 2:08 am
any displaced american of sound health and mind and within the accepted age limit should go to Irac or afganistan to earn the right to get free food and housing
September 10th, 2005 at 2:11 am
What if one comes and kills all the people that are helping mellie? What will we do then?
September 10th, 2005 at 2:30 am
hahaha…Lucifer you’re an idiot, not worth wasting my time on…And Aaron i know you can’t help it so won’t worry with You either…And You’re beleiving real men don’t carry guns.(our last conversation )..just how do you plan to do that Aaron point and say please?….lmao
September 10th, 2005 at 2:37 am
read other post…Aaron and Lucifer one and the same…why you changing names Aaron? hiding…hahahaha you’re funny
September 10th, 2005 at 2:49 am
i cant believe yall resort to these tactics to dismiss anyones opinion from the nazis belief.first yall insult my intelligence then you resort to minglin my name with lucifer i admit you nazi bastards are far more intellectual i give up on this website im nolonger on it we arent even allowed to express an opinion for all the propaganda without yall coming up with a sick ploy to disrupt it.im done no longer on this blog.however im going to washington on the 24th anyone who says they want to kick my ass back it up face to face on that day we see who the cowards are .
September 10th, 2005 at 2:54 am
i feel that bush and the troops are doing an excellent job.i am considering appointing him as the antichrist.
*****************
He’s no good, Lucifer… Bush makes people PRAY as never before
Chertoff for the Antichrist! ;D
September 10th, 2005 at 3:16 am
werealldoomed, Hurricanes may be one of the least predictable weather phenomena, but we do usually get at least a day for evacuation. All of the workers would be withdrawn and sent back in when it was safe. Glass half full.
September 10th, 2005 at 4:44 am
aaron Says:
September 10th, 2005 at 2:15 am
o i forgot to change lucifer back to aaron when i was jokin about being lucifer its not lucifer that wants to meet you in california and woopyour ass its aaron
**********
Was no lying Aaron…this was what you said on another post^^^^^^^
September 10th, 2005 at 6:51 am
This whole country has turned from God’s favor yes this maybe a warning. There are still Christians but bad things happen to the good and the bad all the same. God is not a respector of persons and if one is a Christian serving Him they will become stronger with tragedy and those that arent may look to Him for the answers. Peace and prayers to all those that were stricken.
September 10th, 2005 at 6:58 am
Please, Hazel, don’t speak about God’s judgement as if you are God’s personal spokesman. New Orleans has been a wicked place, in many ways, but so have other places. And I remember what Jesus said, “…Let he who has no sin cast the first stone.” It is clear in scripture that a proper response to evil is to FIGHT it and help! There is a post on my blog which speaks to that. Anyway, being a human, and thus imperfect, I won’t throw stones. But I will go and help. Looks like my husband and I will be heading south with a group from the church I pastor. We are getting clearance in the next day or so…kinda scary, actually.
September 10th, 2005 at 7:44 am
ok…let me set a few things straight…
I believe this “section” was supposed to be about the potential for more storms to come. On that note, Ophelia is a dangerous player. She is lying around trying to figure out what she wants to do. Kind of like that carnival toon “Round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows!!” Me personally, I have alredy prepared. Then again, I believe in the moto of “Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.”
For those that think “prayer is ineffectual” or other such things, Hurricane happened for a reason. For what reason, nobody but God will know. The reason could be as simple as reuniting one son with one dad who havent really spoken to each other in several years, to erease all the bitterness that divided them and show them what is truly important. It could also be to humble us. Pretty humbling to see the greatest nation on earth lose an entire city (and devestate several others). We had been flirting with disaster in N.O. for several years (decades actually). Maybe we just tempted fate once too many times.
September 10th, 2005 at 8:26 am
i know i wasnt going to say anything else but i feel like i had to set the record straight that last lucifer ploy you nazis used really upsets me.i have it be known that i am i christian i wear a gold cross around my neck on a necklace everyday and i would defend it id walk through the ghetto and defend and i have so im not scared of a bunch of guntoting nazis.ive been called a liberal an idiot by a lot of people on here.im not a liberal or a democrator a nazi republican i got no party affiliations so you cant put a label on me.i cant believe the lengths you people go to defend a stupid ass party.40000 people are dead and you want to say stuff like they didnt have jobs their on welfare they should have left its all just cold blooded and anyone that had any concern for these human lives you quickly dismiss as a liberal or an idiot or this last ploy lucifer.i wish you could see the sickness in all this propaganda you spout.the fact of the matter is 40000 united states citizens are dead,51000 guntoting nazis invaded the coast and still have the area quaretined and still holding the gun to them.sounds like genocide similar to the acts they have commited in iaq.i dont have any party affiliations i am just a working class american citizen.but on september 24th im going to ride my harley to washington in the bikers against bush protest thats all i have to say
September 10th, 2005 at 9:33 am
and to further set the record straight to the stupid fuck jimbo in norcal who started hollering kennedy this and kennedy that because i disagree with the war started sayin i was a dem.do you think i a teamster would give a fuck about kennedy come on dumbass hofas my hero.kennedy was a liberal nazi as far as im concern he can rot in hell with bush hitler and you he did more to bust the workin class down than republicans he tried to bust the unions down how could you get it through your moron skull i aint got no party affliations im a workin class u.s. citizen none of the partys represent us except for election day i know that when you get that through you imbecile brain
September 10th, 2005 at 9:51 am
and for the lord jesus christ ,meathead jimbo in norcal you would admit to having nixon as your president of choice?and im the idiot?i thank that just about sums up your intellect.
September 10th, 2005 at 10:43 am
I find it hard to believe, considering the topic of the thread, that religion and nazi’s seems to have gotten thrown in. Things in nature happen, I don’t really believe that it’s because we humans are good or bad…it’s just nature and our planet doing what it does. I find it disturbing that people…after all of this…are still fighting w/ each other. I think what we maybe should think about is what happens if another hurricane hits the people in Florida. Are we really ready? And what do we need to do to be ready?
In ‘93 we had the biggest flood in history (mississippi river)…I saw the one in ‘73 and it was nothing compared to that one. But some people then would have liked to think it was God’s punishment (maybe..maybe not)..but we’re still here, and hopefully it’s made me more sympathetic to others dealing with the present crisis.
September 10th, 2005 at 10:52 am
Aaron, if I were you…I would quit typing. You really are making a fool out of yourself.
September 10th, 2005 at 10:57 am
no your the one trying to make a full of me for having a different view.instead of hiding and making fun of me why dont you show you face so i can wup your ass
September 10th, 2005 at 11:02 am
come on september 24th washington d.c. you insult me say youll show up .ill wup your ass if you want to talk noise at least be willing to back it up and say it to my face
September 10th, 2005 at 11:03 am
me against you mano amano
September 10th, 2005 at 11:14 am
your just like the rest of them nazi cowards strength in numbers and guns aint a one of you can fight your own fight none of em willing to go toe to toe Ali now that was a bad ass although he was muslim and im christian i respect him the most famous consciensous objecter to the vietnam draft yet he proved to the world he could wup any man on the face of the earth at that time now theres a real man not one of these guntoting nazis we call heros
September 10th, 2005 at 11:23 am
im going to sleep so any takers ill check in tomorow if you dont get an immediate response ill get back with you later
September 10th, 2005 at 12:19 pm
Rest well Aaron….I would imagine that much anger required alot of your energy.
September 10th, 2005 at 4:01 pm
I believe everthing happens for a reason, rumor has that the world shall meet its maker on June 6 2006, put it together folks 6,6,6.
September 10th, 2005 at 6:08 pm
SIgn. And who started that “rumor?” Everying happens for a reason…? If that is so (and I don’t think it is) but if it is, the reason usually comes down to our choices. CHOICES! God did not make a race of robots and then orchestrate every single action and reaction. He gave us freedom of choce. We sure have misused it. But this is off topic and the threads here seem to have become mostly name calling, so I’ll go start making a list of what to take to Biloxi.
September 10th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
I dont get it, you lot blame god?
Its just a bad NATURAL disaster, why not try and help.
Aaron, you poor boy, you still think you won in nam LOL
Fighting fixes nothing in a time where compasion is required and moreover solutions to future storms, in this modern world cant something be done to prevent such storms.
Think
or be blown away.
September 10th, 2005 at 8:15 pm
no june 6 2006 is the day bush starts tattoing your forehead.to south africa thats what i was trying to say before all these nazis started callin me names.
September 10th, 2005 at 8:24 pm
and in we did win in nam it was the war pig nazis who lost we went to washington and kicked their ass they had to withdraw we won thats what we got to do again hey remember nixon the republican doin the peace sign and sayin i am not a crook check out the way their already trying to use shehan repuplian nzis are somethin else.
September 10th, 2005 at 8:33 pm
i can see bush already i am not the antichrist osama is the antichrist now every american needs to do their duty and line up for a new tattoo that will make america a safer place to live
September 10th, 2005 at 9:07 pm
there is a lot that has gone wrong but none of it is gods fualt and a lot of those people down there are in the same place that i am in life no home no car no one that cares the only thing i have good right now is this library card that gives me a place to sleep when it rains. when 911 happoned every one blamed god. and now they are blaming him again. in the bible it says not judge any thing. the blaming that we are doing can be consetered judgeing so lets stop all this bullshit and get back to what really matter. SAVING LIVES.
September 10th, 2005 at 9:23 pm
aaron i will see you at your gay little march on september 24th washington d.c. i will be caring no gun but i will have a weapon i hope you have a lot of poeple with you. see you soon arron
shadowe_viper_kenshin
September 10th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
alright a first taker its on then but your goin to have a weapon im talkin about a 12 round prize fight are you on for that loser puts his gun down me against you
September 10th, 2005 at 10:00 pm
malbe your a coward air force guy you going to shoot a cruise missle at me why cant you go hand to hand mano amano
September 10th, 2005 at 10:20 pm
whats a matter you afraid of an ass wupin hell i had my ass wuped before in fact many times i had an ass wupin and then came back and gave an ass wupin whats the problem why you got to hide you pyscho nazi
September 10th, 2005 at 10:38 pm
yeah dumbass smokerings are goin up i got the 150lb weight division sewed up how you thank we won nam you thank we was pssin out flowers
September 11th, 2005 at 12:38 am
I’ve never posted to anything, and this is probably not the right topic to post on.
Is anyone getting tired of the endless news coverage on Katrina? It’s starting to feel like the reporters are sensationalizing any interesting morsel of information just to keep the story dramatic and running.
It’s a horrible disaster, I have no doubt. I love how the news coverage up until today, has been almost exclusively on the worst hit part of town. Taking about 10,000 dead, $100BN in damages, entire city underwater. I’m glad the facts now are forcing them to start telling some part of the truth. (By the way, you have any idea what 10,000+ dead would look like? With the amount of coverage the reportings are trying to exaggerate, you’d be expecting to see the water full of corpses floating around. Not J.T Arlpaugh flying overhead looking at oil-stained water.)
I am so glad that Soledad O’brien (They say Suze Orman looks like a gargoyle. Soledad looks like an imp.) actually told the truth yesterday or day before that the warehouse has more like a few dead bodies instead of 100 dead bodies. Normally, she likes to put sensational words into the mouths of people she interviews. You’d see this person coming on to tell about how something bad happened to a family member. She’d be looking at this person and she’d say something like “Isn’t this a utter devastating, horrific tragedy in your poor, pathetic life?”
Now they are saying we’re finding fewer bodies than originally thought. A lot more than 200, but probably less than 10,000+.
Again, it is a horrible disaster. But I’d just assume we get the truth instead of some media sensationalization of the worst case scenario, only.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:08 am
aaron,
you really must stop, it’s obvious that you are hiding for some reason behind all of that machismo. you don’t have to feel inadequate or insecure. nobody is questioning your manhood. your anger is really a front for something deeper. you should be careful offering to get in a one on one altercation with someone. you don’t know who you are confronting. you know, you aren’t a real man just because you want to fight everyone in the world. a real man has complete control and discipline. you do not. you will end up someday in a fight that you can’t win and you will probably end up dead because you wanted to fight someone you knew nothing about. and he will beat you, to a bloody pulp. you must learn to keep your anger and insecurities at bay. you must learn to control them, do not let them control you. only then will you become what you want to be.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:55 am
i been beat to a pulp before some things are worth fighting for
September 11th, 2005 at 2:13 am
do you want to see our government continue to commit genocide.we are going to have to put the smokerrings up like in nam.its hard reality but we got to draw the line to the war pigs somewhere.you lose you put your gun down hand to hand mano amano
September 11th, 2005 at 2:13 am
I think we finally found the missing link!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:22 am
we won the nam conflict and we didnt do it by passin out flowers as the republicans would have you to believe.we true americans stood them down toe to toe and the war pigs had to put there guns down now their at it again
September 11th, 2005 at 3:13 am
To the moron that was babbling about people living off the government I can only pray you fall on hard times someday and see what’s really going on. I guess those people that were left to die in the nursing home were just worthless leaches too…It must be terrible to be such a pathetic human being such as yourself. Then you have the nerve to start spouting off about the mess that was left behind? There were no working toilets, running water or anything else you fucking imbecile. 20,000 people crammed in one building with no food, water or toilets and you expect fucking molly maid to show up? Lemme guess, your IQ is right around 75 right? With any luck the next hurricane will hit your neighborhood because genocide never sounded so good to me til I read your post…
Kristina
September 11th, 2005 at 3:35 am
aaron,
yeah maybe some things are worth fighting for, but…you haven’t mentioned anything yet. what the hell does vietnam have anything to do about Katrina. the bottom line is you know nothing about emergency preparedness, emergency management or anything else for that matter that has to do with saving people. it’s o.k. though I can see that as an insecurity on your part and i’ll help you through it. you are just like the drug addict wastoid gang banger on t.v. who contributed nothing before hurricane katrina and now blames the governement for not moving fast enough to help them to save their measly little life, when it wasn’t worth much more than the coke they were snortin’ five minutes before katrina hit. now calm down and just relax, it’s going to be okay. you can make it through this i’m sure. go get a job, quit yer bitchin and complainin; and figure out a way to become a productive member of society. all you are doing is stirring the shitpot and you know full well that anyone who could kick your ass is not going to waste his time to do it. because they are real men and have complete control and self-discipline. you need to get off of this death with you have and get a life.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:04 am
i got a job i dont do drugs i aint affliated with drugs.i got one bout scheduled already with this pycho viper guy on the 24th.if he doesnt show i can fill you in on the card.otherwise if your interested i can schedule you for the 25th otherwise shut up.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:10 am
that is if this viper guy dont beat me up too bad
September 11th, 2005 at 4:21 am
in a case of me losin wed have to resched mine and your bout with the next contender are you ready for the smokerrings sean.what does it have to do with nam.muhhamed ali was truly the greastest boxer of all time.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:25 am
sorry aaron I’m one of those guys who isn’t going to waste his time with you. but thanks for askin, it was worth a try.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:51 am
ok well just wait til the chinese boxer rebellion starts youll be on youre way to the convienence store to buy a six-pack and a billion chinese come roaring through the neighbor hood swingin i think we better start ropin things off now for a distraction.
September 11th, 2005 at 5:47 am
Dude aka aaron your a few fries short of a happy meal
September 11th, 2005 at 9:01 am
In regards to the God discussion of earlier: God was the evidence of the levee’s inherent vulnerability, was the weather man before the storm telling people to get out, was the evidence of peoples’ inability to get out, was Katrina, was that one road in and out of New Orleans, was/is in all those helping now. The Devil was in the withholding of proper funds to fix the levees before, was in the disregard of a people left behind, was in the notion of ‘numero uno’, of me before you, was in the ‘beurocratic’ debacle, was in the lack of leadership, was in notion that abstinance and gays deserve more attention than starving and undereducated.
September 11th, 2005 at 9:09 am
Personally, I feel that the entries on the page are ridiculous. Religion is a personal entity and it was made that way to stop people from forcing others to share there views. As far as Bush goes all the marching, protesting, and riots will not do anything to stop him, he is on his own personal mission and unfortunately we have to wait for him to be replaced, alot of people forget that this man stole the election with the help of the fools that voted for him and his father’s connections. Katrina is the subject that we should be discussing and the fact is it is a sad but real event in our life time. These people will eventually have to relocate and they will be coming to all areas of the country to search for help and it is the goverments job to help them bottom line. It does not matter if they were on welfare or doing drugs because when it all came down to it upper class, middle class and lower class have perished. Open your eyes to the pain of others its not always about yourself
September 11th, 2005 at 10:24 am
Alot of people base morality on a book or more aparently culture, so I think God and the Devil does play a role here, in respect to the priorities people have and how people view the world.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
MAY GOD BE WITH ALL WHO HAFT TO ENDUR THESE STORMS,AND THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY TRUTH,THIER IS YOU CAN’T TRUST YOUR GOV,OR THE PRESS.THAT BIBLE WAS WRITTEN OVER TWO THOUSAND YEARS, AND IT IS COMING TO PASS, IF YOUR READY YOU WONT CARE ABOUT ANY STORM
September 12th, 2005 at 1:38 am
SingingOwl are you still out there? whats up? are you N-D-N?, IF SO WHAT TRIBE? OH YEAH AND ARE YOU A FEMALE? SEND ME AN e-MAIL @ JKING@SBC.COM holla if you hear me.
September 12th, 2005 at 1:42 am
hey aaron shut the #$7* up nigga
September 12th, 2005 at 8:01 am
aaron’s a retard. Next!
September 12th, 2005 at 8:48 pm
Has anyone ever heard of Southern Decadence? Well it seems that they were planning their “Gay Mardi Gras” that same week Katrina hit. They had the welcoming of the Mayor and, from what I’ve been told, bragged that “no one could stop them” This article describes some of the actions of this group before.
http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html
I was also informed that Hurricane Katrina began brewing on the same day the settlers of Gaza Strip, in Israel, were removed from their land.
And the name Katrina means….Pure.
September 12th, 2005 at 9:45 pm
Are you implying that this is God’s way of ‘cleansing’ people that you personally have a problem with?
September 12th, 2005 at 10:20 pm
Impossible! Any idiot knows Bush did it!
September 12th, 2005 at 11:20 pm
Armyless,
I would like a sincere answer not wise ass remarks. Any person, regardless of their political belief, knows that Bush can not control the weather. What he does control is the budget and the cabinet that he appoints. He is responsible for the outcome of his choices (personal resonsibilty remeber).
September 13th, 2005 at 1:58 am
I think congress does the budget. What’s your opinion Armyless?
September 13th, 2005 at 2:11 am
Congress submits the budget.
The problem with even HAVING this discussion is that the disagreeing terms are cannabilistic by nature. These red and blue planets orbit each other and shrink into gravitational decay.
The President controls a whole lot less than the Democrats wish he did, and THANK GOD (or whatever philosophy you worship). If the President DID control as much as you (D’s) wish he did, then he WOULD be at fault.
I reject the premise that the government sits above us. I simply reject the notion that I OWE the government, that I live IN the government, or that the government shapes our freedoms. These are failures of perspective.
The government has a built in failure mechanism called “The Balance of Powers”. This means that the U.S. government is a political quagmire where not much of ANYTHING gets done. This, as it turns out, is better for everyone because the less the government controls, the more free we are.
It’s easy to have a fond perspective of our government when we are so far removed from it. THANK GOD. Just try to remember the last encounter you had with government and imagine LIVING like that every miserable day. Just try to imagine standing in line at the DMV 3 times every day for food.
You can have it, I want my OWN personal responsibility.
September 13th, 2005 at 2:17 am
We’d die of starvation. Anyway well put. Got to run.
September 13th, 2005 at 5:21 am
However; Bush did appoint ole “Brownie” as head of FEMA. As I recall those pesky “D’s” raised quite a ruckus over Bush making that appointment. I also recall the people that pointed out this man’s problems were said to be picking on poor W and not letting him make his appointments
September 13th, 2005 at 6:41 am
Kristina, you still don’t get. You are to hung up on Bush, you can see the forest through the trees.
September 13th, 2005 at 6:44 am
Make that you can’t see the forest through the trees.
September 13th, 2005 at 7:34 am
Not quite hung up on Bush, Congress and the Senate as well aren’t tops on my hit list. Matter of fact the whole damn government while we are at it. Just so happens these buffoons are at the top of the food chain and calling the shots. The FACT is the two party system is a fucking joke and it allows two groups of imbeciles to choose which imbecile we get to vote for. I blame the American people to be quite honest. They’ve allowed this system to get warped beyond recognition while worrying about how much bigger an SUV they should buy and whether little Johnny has the right soccer shoes. Now you can say Bush doesn’t control anything all you want but it was his DUMB ass that pulled us out of Kyoto in the interest of big business. You can also cry about protecting big business so we all can have jobs, just not sure what good a job will do us when we are all under water. ***sigh*** The climate is changing and has been for years and yet braniac Bush still won’t admit it even exists. I realize this system of saying things enough times will make them true seems to work for Bush with the American people but I really don’t think Mother Nature gives a rats ass what he thinks or says…Me, I’m thinking of buying some nice ocean front property in oh, say, Oklahoma…
September 13th, 2005 at 8:33 am
Brown step down…Bush is next!
September 13th, 2005 at 8:34 am
Brownie you did a heck of a job….LMAO
September 13th, 2005 at 9:09 am
Go worship Gaya Kristina. The Earth cycles through hot and cold in vast patterns that are BEYOND CONTROL.
This is not something you’re capable of grasping cuz you’re dumb.
September 13th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
Blame yourself Kristina. Are you not part of this country? If you’re so fed up with it all…then LEAVE!
September 13th, 2005 at 7:06 pm
Bush lies people die
September 13th, 2005 at 7:12 pm
Armyless is correct. The earth does cycle through weather pattern changes and even tilts on it’s axis, which changes the weather patterns.
You are a misguided an environMENTALIST (sorry not my zing, got it off a billboard in Arizona after the wildfires detroyed the natural forest because the environmentalist wouldn’t let them clear out the dead brush, so the forest went up like a pile of dry newspaper). Let me guess you use energy that comes from a non-renewalable resource, but then complain about it. You are all for living in a home that has displaced wildlife and destroys forest but you want to the rainforest saved (which should be saved). You complain about new power plants and power lines, but won’t diconnect your electricity, install an alternative source of energy or better yet pay a few extra bucks to your power company to provide you with green energy( from environmentaly friendly sources). Bet you use toxic chemicals to clean your home because their easier to find, more convenient and less expensive (there are alternatives out there that are non-toxic and actual clean and disinfect your home better) . Bottom line your for the environment as long as it doesn’t inconvenience you. (sorry for the soap box but this is a pet peeve of mine)
Stop blameing big business and government for all your woes and stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.
September 13th, 2005 at 7:16 pm
LOL, the typical right wing, neo-con answer, if you don’t like it leave. Why should I leave? This is MY country too. I’m just tired of seeing it run into oblivion by inept fools in the name of “morality”…And Armyless what the hell does worshipping “Gaya” have to do with anything I posted? Answer: Not a fucking thing. I think the word you might have been grasping for was Gaia anyhow. Yes, Gaia was goddess of Earth however; one does not have to worship anything to see we are screwing up the only planet we have. Just go buy another Excursion, you’ll feel better…Do any of you chuckleheads even live in a hurricane zone? I’d bet not…
September 13th, 2005 at 7:45 pm
“The FACT is the two party system is a fucking joke and it allows two groups of imbeciles to choose which imbecile we get to vote for. I blame the American people to be quite honest.”
Uh….that would include you honey if you’re part of America. Better than living under a tyrant. At least we HAVE choices and if we don’t like something WE have the voice to do something about it through our State Congressmen and US Congressmen (and women!) And voting.
Remember the USSR and those poor people? Or would you like the Middle East countries where women must remain covered and are not allowed to speak? Would you rather live there?
September 13th, 2005 at 8:03 pm
MSgal,
Kinda like voting for the lessser of two evils.
Kristina, it has very little to do with your postings, but he got you to react to it.
September 13th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
What I’m saying is why should we have to keep accepting the same old status quo of bullshit? As long as we keep lapping it up they are gonna keep shoveling it. I wouldn’t consider myself an enviornmentalist, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see something needs to be done. People don’t NEED 6,000lb SUVs unless they actually use it for something other than goddamn soccer practice. The government doesn’t NEED to encourage these assholes to keep buying them by allowing tax right offs for businesses if they buy a BIG enough SUV. These are simple steps that could be taken to lessen the green house gasses we emit but we can’t even do that much. We have become a symbol of greed and wastefulness to the world and each year that passes we have fewer and fewer allies. How very typical that we are dumping that toxic garbage water back into Lake Ponchetrain without so much as trying to treat it. My personal favorite is the asshole with the “Support our Troops” bumper sticker on a behemouth Hummer lmao…Maybe our troops wouldn’t be in Iraq getting their ass shot off for oil if they downsized to a mini van…
September 13th, 2005 at 8:29 pm
Oh and Msgal, you mean we don’t live under a tyrant? Last time I checked our Bill of Rights had been gutted pretty effectively by the Patriot Act. There is also a Patriot Act 2 waiting in the wings to get hustled through Congress the next time we have a security “breach”…Who knows, they might even be able to use Katrina to pull that one off…
September 13th, 2005 at 8:43 pm
Main Entry: ty·rant
Pronunciation: ‘tI-r&nt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tirant, from Old French tyran, tyrant, from Latin tyrannus, from Greek tyrannos
1 a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution b : a usurper of sovereignty
2 a : a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally b : one resembling an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power
“unrestrained by law or constitution”…”absolute power oppressively or brutally”….
Last time I checked I don’t think we have a tyrant in office. I’ve had this dicussion before and I refuse to go through it again.
September 13th, 2005 at 8:44 pm
Kristina, ever been caught in a snowstorm in the middle of no where, those SUV’s come in handy. Also, don’t assume that they all get horrible gas mileage. I’ve seen some cars on the market that do worse. Do some research. Also keep track of the mileage you get with the vehilce you drive. One of our SUV’s get 25mpg on the highway and 22mpg in the city the other, the smaller one gets 25mpg in the cirty and up to 32mpg on the highway, averaging 27mpg on the highway. By the way most business do not buy Hummers, these are “big toys” (except for the army ones) not SUV’s. The next time you go some where park your car where you can walk to all the places you need to go. It saves gas and is great for your health.
September 13th, 2005 at 8:59 pm
I drive rarely as I am my elderly Mother’s caregiver after she suffered a stroke in January. I drive a four cylinder sports car that gets excellent gas mileage. SUV’s that get good gas mileage are not the norm.
Msgal said “1 a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution b : a usurper of sovereignty” Last time I checked the Bushies were busy gutting the constitution anyway they saw fit in the name of National Security…Too bad I don’t feel more secure right now..
September 13th, 2005 at 9:12 pm
Actually, there are becoming so. Our larger SUV (GMC) is a 2005 and has an on demand motor, which means it is designed to only use all it cylinders when accelerating or pulling a trailer, etc. I believe Ford is designing or has designed an SUV that is a hybrid. We use fuel that contains at least 15% ethonal in our vehicles, it reduces that gas mileage but it is a renewabl resource and is environmentally friendly. Sorry to hear about your mother.
September 13th, 2005 at 9:37 pm
to Cheryl
was only stating some things i was told. didn’t put my personal opinion anywhere in it.
September 13th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
I’m aware of the hybrid SUV and I can only hope that more people will begin to buy hybrid vehicles. I know my next vehicle will more than likely be a hybrid if at all possible (we are looking into a vehicle that can transport a wheelchair). I’m afraid where I live I don’t see people that need SUV’s or trucks for anything other than their “good ole boy” status. We live in Florida and there is no snow storm to worry about getting stranded in, yet the majority of the vehicles I see on the road are SUVs and trucks. The point is really moot now anyhow with the cost of gasoline rising ever faster the SUV phase is about over unless it IS a hybrid or gets outstanding gas mileage…I’ve noticed the truck manufacturers that have been raping people on trucks for the past several years are now begging people to buy them lol…A silverado that only last year would have easily cost 25,000 dollars is now being advertised for 16,000 on television here. I wonder if anyone has thought through the impact on workers with these gas prices? Anytime a constant expense rises by a third some serious pain is going to be felt. I haven’t seen many employers jumping to raise wages to compensate for this either…I guess the poor will just keep getting poorer and the middle class will just keep getting smaller…
September 13th, 2005 at 11:10 pm
Please sign this…
http://tools.democracyforamerica.com/petition/katrina/action.php?id=2454327062cb3888
September 13th, 2005 at 11:45 pm
You need it when you drive from Flroida north. Especially if you get stuck on the highway in Kentucky in a snow storm. That state sure did not know what to do when it snowed. These gas prices have hit trucking companies, suppliers, retail stores, etc. Not to mention other energy prices. Some business can barely stay a float because of this let alone give raises.
Look for plastic goods to have a large increase in prices as well, as these items are made out of oil.
September 14th, 2005 at 12:12 am
Kristina, I live in FL. How many strike-outs are we going to allow you before you have to go play on the kiddy field?
Look how offended you got when I misspelled your precious little deity.
Freaks like you think humankind is the scourge of the Earth and the only solution is to wipe mankind off the planet.
I’d tell you to “leave” but that would involve an interstellar body.
Guess we’ll have to settle for the kiddy-field.
September 14th, 2005 at 1:34 am
Armyless, you presume much and know little but that’s not terribly surprising…As to how I feel about humankind you are not far off target. The vast majority of humans are a waste of air and space, yourself included imo. I’ve dealt with the general public for over 20 years in my profession and for the most part they are USELESS. The worship of the almighty dollar has turned them into greedy, warmongering, hateful, spiteful eaters. So, go back to worshipping your precious little deity $$$$ and see where it gets you. I have very little use for organized religion and will say that is one thing Marx was on target with. Organized religion IS the opiate of the masses and Bush injects just the right dosage to keep them frothing at the mouth and coming back for more…
September 14th, 2005 at 2:10 am
Kristina, if that’s true you work in a horrible place. The trouble is there are just as many nice people and nasty people, but the nasty people make more of an impact on us. Basicly they’re easier to remember.
September 14th, 2005 at 2:43 am
If you can so easily say that humans in the vast majority are such a waste of air and space then the only answer is to make sure everyone leaves this world. All I can say to that is leadership by example has always been the most effective means by which to get something as magnanimous as this done.
September 14th, 2005 at 3:50 am
The heat wave in July 1995 in Chicago was one of the worst weather-related disasters in Illinois history with approximately 525 deaths over a 5-day period. As noted by Changnon et al. (1996), “The loss of human life in hot spells in summer exceeds that caused by all other weather events in the United States combined, including lightning, rainstorms/floods, hurricanes, and tornadoes.” Weather hazards such as tornadoes, floods, lightning, and winter storms each result in about 100 deaths per year on average, while heat waves result in about 1000 deaths per year on average.
Why was the July 1995 event so severe?
Here are the records for Chicago at Midway airport:
——————————————————————————–
STATION: CHICAGO_MIDWAY_AP_3_SW, IL (Station ID: 111577)
Precip- || Snow Snow
itation High Low Mean Degree Fall Depth Observe
Year Mo Dy (in) (F) (F) (F) Days (in) (in) Time Source
1995 07 01 0.00 77 60 69 4 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 02 0.00 78 57 68 3 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 03 0.00 83 63 73 8 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 04 0.28 86 69 78 13 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 05 0.09 87 67 77 12 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 06 0.00 81 69 75 10 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 07 0.00 81 63 72 7 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 08 0.00 84 60 72 7 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 09 0.04 85 66 76 11 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 10 0.00 90 64 77 12 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 11 0.00 90 73 82 17 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 12 0.00 98 76 87 22 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 13 0.00 106 81 94 29 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 14 0.00 102 84 93 28 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 15 0.47 99 77 88 23 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 16 0.00 94 76 85 20 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 17 0.00 89 73 81 16 0.0 0 MID F
——————————————————————————–
The really hot weather occurred from July 12 to July 16. The 106° F on July 13th set the record for the warmest July temperature since records began at Midway in 1928. Not only were the daytime temperatures high but the nighttime low temperatures were quite high (upper 70s and lower 80s) as well. Record humidity levels also accompanied the hot weather. The high humidity and high nighttime temperatures provided little relief from the heat.
Urban Heat Island
Another contributing factor in the heat wave is the so-called “urban heat island”. Urban heat islands are caused by the high concentration of buildings, parking lots, and roads in urban areas, which tend to absorb more heat in the day and radiate more heat at night than comparable rural sites. Therefore, urban areas usually experience a lot less cooling at night than do rural sites. Furthermore, temperature measurements at O’Hare Airport, a more suburban site, will not reflect the severity of the 1995 heat wave in the inner city.
Most of the victims of the 1995 heat wave were the elderly in the heart of the urban area. Many of the poorer older citizens either had no air conditioning or could not afford to operate the system they had. Many older citizens were also hesitant to open windows and doors at night for fear of crime. By contrast, in the heat waves of the 1930s, many residents slept outside in the parks or along the shore of Lake Michigan.
Other factors that contributed to the high number of deaths were an inadequate local heat wave warning system, power failures, inadequate ambulance service and hospital facilities, and the aging of the population in the urban areas. City officials did not release a heat emergency warning until June 15, the last day of the heat wave. Thus, such emergency measures as Chicago’s five cooling centers were not fully utilized. The medical system of Chicago was severely taxed as thousands were taken to local hospitals with heat-related problems. In some cases, fire trucks were used as substitute ambulances.
Unfortunately, Chicago will continue to be vulnerable to heat waves because of the urban heat island and the socio-economic makeup of the urban area (high percentage of lower-income elderly). However, the number of deaths may be reduced by: a) implementing an early-warning system that takes into account the local conditions, b) better define the heat island conditions associated with heat waves to improve forecasts, c) develop a uniform means for classifying heat-related deaths, and d) increase the research on the conditions of heat stress and heat waves
who was president in 1995?
September 14th, 2005 at 3:51 am
have they evan responed to this yet.
September 14th, 2005 at 6:59 am
Hey Kristina if you hate money so much just send it to me.
No, seriously. I’ll take it. I’ll do you this one favor, then you can go live in your Marxist Utopia and slaughter political dissidents by the millions. This is the only way you can get along with people. Make the “competition disappear”. Problem is, hon, since you were stoned in the 80’s…
Communism FAILED!
And for no other reason than…. Pride in Ownership.
How such a simple grace can be lost on someone shows how spoiled they are. Get a clue, join the human race, and stop ENSLAVING your fellow man!
September 14th, 2005 at 7:00 am
Not yet tony, too bad. Bush fed them their intestines for lunch and they’re not hungry yet.
September 14th, 2005 at 8:53 am
Communism was definitely stupid and evil.
September 14th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
hmmmm….welllwellll…nowadays 2 many disasters goin on…wat 2 do…juz got 2 go through….pull up ur self…n face reality…..
September 14th, 2005 at 6:03 pm
ur right fusy_gerl.
Close friend in south MS lost her home due to 2 pine trees falling through the middle of it. Said the water damage destroyed everything else. Two kids, a husband, and she’s back in school for the 2nd time. I asked if she needed my help for anything and she declined. Says the kids haven’t started back to school but her classes have.
Never once did she complain about anything. Never once did she point fingers or place blame on anyone. Never once did she mention that someone or some entity wasn’t “doing enough for her.”
They are doing just what you said… picking up and moving on.
September 14th, 2005 at 6:09 pm
Tony
That president wasn’t responsible for the entire population of the United States. In that particular case the State of Illinois should have taken care of it’s own, particulary the Mayor of Chicago. You couldn’t possibly bother that president with such a minor incident. He had too many uh…”other” things going on.
September 14th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
Armyless, if your reading comprehension wasn’t so poor you would have read that I said the ONE thing Marx was correct on. I would hardly say that makes me a Marxist lmao. Money is necessary but it should not be placed above all else as it is in today’s society. You can make light of it all you want although it doesn’t change the fact. I fail to see any form of government that is NOT evil. The human condition makes it so. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. For the record I also have no problem with “religious” people. I just don’t care for organized religion that tells me I need to send money to God. I doubt very highly that God needs cash. I find it laughable that FEMA had Pat Robertson’s website listed as a place to donate money for Katrina victims. This is a good example of “organized religion”. He’s been busted countless times misappropriating charitable funds for his private ventures yet FEMA is telling us to donate more money to him. This is also a man that calls for assassination as good foreign policy lmao…
September 14th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
MSgal, Great Story!
“Never once did she complain about anything. Never once did she point fingers or place blame on anyone. Never once did she mention that someone or some entity wasn’t “doing enough for her.”
Sounds like she’s a survivor! Not one used to handouts.
September 15th, 2005 at 10:52 am
I think Kristina is right, I think I need to travel more to see the poverty and suffering of the world, too bad I can´t because:
1. I can´t speak any other language than american
2. I don´t have interest in other people.
3. My parents never taught me how to be respectful of the people, not only in my own country (which, by the way, I think is great but not his people, which is a contradiction) but in the world world.
4. I need to get out more.
September 16th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
Some moron immitating me thinks we speak “American” LOL!!!!!!
September 17th, 2005 at 5:47 am
i pray every night before i go to bed. i think that U should to. i hope the hurricane katrina people get free and i hope that no more people die!!!
September 20th, 2005 at 4:34 am
well i hope that if this new one hits people can get out in enough time. and we dont have to see anymore dead people on the news
September 21st, 2005 at 7:10 am
when did the storm hit? I hope these people are saved
September 22nd, 2005 at 7:17 am
This thread grew strangely quiet considering the size of Rita…
September 22nd, 2005 at 10:44 am
That’s because the catastrophe in New Orleans is about to contast with a disaster not unlike the ravages thrust against Florida last year. That is… we’re dealing with a city NOT built below sea level.
Political barbs aside… I would never buy land in Atlantis, no matter how cheap it was.
September 22nd, 2005 at 3:50 pm
KP, I’ve been thinking a lot about Rita. It’s remarkable that we’re having an intense hurricane season and an intense typhoon season.
September 22nd, 2005 at 7:34 pm
LOL Armyless you cannot even compare Rita or Katrina to ANY of the four hurricanes that hit Florida last year. They are not even near to the same class. Possibly Ivan but even Ivan was no way near as large or strong as either Katrina or Rita. They are now fearful that people are going to be stranded on the highways when the storm hits because of the traffic gridlock leaving Houston.
September 22nd, 2005 at 8:40 pm
Kristina, your desire to prove that Katrina was a unique storm outside the realm of hitting a city below sea water (AKA bias) is getting in the way of FACTS.
Charlie was a category 4. There are parts of Sanibel Island that don’t exist anymore.
Think about that for a second. You’re trying to prove a point, and ignoring facts.
September 22nd, 2005 at 8:54 pm
Those we don’t mention, the people East of O’rleans in Mississippi and Alabama who got hit by Katrina…. how come nobody ever talks about them???
BECAUSE THEY DON’T LIVE UNDERWATER!
September 22nd, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Armyless, my point is not about NO or anywhere else. My point is these storms are getting worse and the Shrub can say there is no global warming til he’s blue in the face but the FACTS are the weather is getting worse and sea level is rising. NO has been SINKING and was not originally built below sea level GET IT? Ask the nice people in Venice about rising sea levels. I noticed yesterday one of the major US automakers has said they will begin to offer 50 percent of their models as hybrids in the next few years so maybe somebody, somewhere is finally getting a clue…
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:38 am
You won’t read this because there’s a chance it might change your mind.
A speech by Author (and Anthropologist) Michael Crichton to the Commonwealth Club.
have been asked to talk about what I consider the most important challenge facing mankind, and I have a fundamental answer. The greatest challenge facing mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda. Perceiving the truth has always been a challenge to mankind, but in the information age (or as I think of it, the disinformation age) it takes on a special urgency and importance.
We must daily decide whether the threats we face are real, whether the solutions we are offered will do any good, whether the problems we’re told exist are in fact real problems, or non-problems. Every one of us has a sense of the world, and we all know that this sense is in part given to us by what other people and society tell us; in part generated by our emotional state, which we project outward; and in part by our genuine perceptions of reality. In short, our struggle to determine what is true is the struggle to decide which of our perceptions are genuine, and which are false because they are handed down, or sold to us, or generated by our own hopes and fears.
As an example of this challenge, I want to talk today about environmentalism. And in order not to be misunderstood, I want it perfectly clear that I believe it is incumbent on us to conduct our lives in a way that takes into account all the consequences of our actions, including the consequences to other people, and the consequences to the environment. I believe it is important to act in ways that are sympathetic to the environment, and I believe this will always be a need, carrying into the future. I believe the world has genuine problems and I believe it can and should be improved. But I also think that deciding what constitutes responsible action is immensely difficult, and the consequences of our actions are often difficult to know in advance. I think our past record of environmental action is discouraging, to put it mildly, because even our best intended efforts often go awry. But I think we do not recognize our past failures, and face them squarely. And I think I know why.
I studied anthropology in college, and one of the things I learned was that certain human social structures always reappear. They can’t be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion. Today it is said we live in a secular society in which many people—the best people, the most enlightened people—do not believe in any religion. But I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely re-emerges in another form. You can not believe in God, but you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.
Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it’s a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.
Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday—these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don’t want to talk anybody out of them, as I don’t want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don’t want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can’t talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith.
And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren’t necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief. It’s about whether you are going to be a sinner, or saved. Whether you are going to be one of the people on the side of salvation, or on the side of doom. Whether you are going to be one of us, or one of them.
Am I exaggerating to make a point? I am afraid not. Because we know a lot more about the world than we did forty or fifty years ago. And what we know now is not so supportive of certain core environmental myths, yet the myths do not die. Let’s examine some of those beliefs.
There is no Eden. There never was. What was that Eden of the wonderful mythic past? Is it the time when infant mortality was 80%, when four children in five died of disease before the age of five? When one woman in six died in childbirth? When the average lifespan was 40, as it was in America a century ago. When plagues swept across the planet, killing millions in a stroke. Was it when millions starved to death? Is that when it was Eden?
And what about indigenous peoples, living in a state of harmony with the Eden-like environment? Well, they never did. On this continent, the newly arrived people who crossed the land bridge almost immediately set about wiping out hundreds of species of large animals, and they did this several thousand years before the white man showed up, to accelerate the process. And what was the condition of life? Loving, peaceful, harmonious? Hardly: the early peoples of the New World lived in a state of constant warfare. Generations of hatred, tribal hatreds, constant battles. The warlike tribes of this continent are famous: the Comanche, Sioux, Apache, Mohawk, Aztecs, Toltec, Incas. Some of them practiced infanticide, and human sacrifice. And those tribes that were not fiercely warlike were exterminated, or learned to build their villages high in the cliffs to attain some measure of safety.
How about the human condition in the rest of the world? The Maori of New Zealand committed massacres regularly. The dyaks of Borneo were headhunters. The Polynesians, living in an environment as close to paradise as one can imagine, fought constantly, and created a society so hideously restrictive that you could lose your life if you stepped in the footprint of a chief. It was the Polynesians who gave us the very concept of taboo, as well as the word itself. The noble savage is a fantasy, and it was never true. That anyone still believes it, 200 years after Rousseau, shows the tenacity of religious myths, their ability to hang on in the face of centuries of factual contradiction.
There was even an academic movement, during the latter 20th century, that claimed that cannibalism was a white man’s invention to demonize the indigenous peoples. (Only academics could fight such a battle.) It was some thirty years before professors finally agreed that yes, cannibalism does inbdeed occur among human beings. Meanwhile, all during this time New Guinea highlanders in the 20th century continued to eat the brains of their enemies until they were finally made to understand that they risked kuru, a fatal neurological disease, when they did so.
More recently still the gentle Tasaday of the Philippines turned out to be a publicity stunt, a nonexistent tribe. And African pygmies have one of the highest murder rates on the planet.
In short, the romantic view of the natural world as a blissful Eden is only held by people who have no actual experience of nature. People who live in nature are not romantic about it at all. They may hold spiritual beliefs about the world around them, they may have a sense of the unity of nature or the aliveness of all things, but they still kill the animals and uproot the plants in order to eat, to live. If they don’t, they will die.
And if you, even now, put yourself in nature even for a matter of days, you will quickly be disabused of all your romantic fantasies. Take a trek through the jungles of Borneo, and in short order you will have festering sores on your skin, you’ll have bugs all over your body, biting in your hair, crawling up your nose and into your ears, you’ll have infections and sickness and if you’re not with somebody who knows what they’re doing, you’ll quickly starve to death. But chances are that even in the jungles of Borneo you won’t experience nature so directly, because you will have covered your entire body with DEET and you will be doing everything you can to keep those bugs off you.
The truth is, almost nobody wants to experience real nature. What people want is to spend a week or two in a cabin in the woods, with screens on the windows. They want a simplified life for a while, without all their stuff. Or a nice river rafting trip for a few days, with somebody else doing the cooking. Nobody wants to go back to nature in any real way, and nobody does. It’s all talk-and as the years go on, and the world population grows increasingly urban, it’s uninformed talk. Farmers know what they’re talking about. City people don’t. It’s all fantasy.
One way to measure the prevalence of fantasy is to note the number of people who die because they haven’t the least knowledge of how nature really is. They stand beside wild animals, like buffalo, for a picture and get trampled to death; they climb a mountain in dicey weather without proper gear, and freeze to death. They drown in the surf on holiday because they can’t conceive the real power of what we blithely call “the force of nature.” They have seen the ocean. But they haven’t been in it.
The television generation expects nature to act the way they want it to be. They think all life experiences can be tivo-ed. The notion that the natural world obeys its own rules and doesn’t give a damn about your expectations comes as a massive shock. Well-to-do, educated people in an urban environment experience the ability to fashion their daily lives as they wish. They buy clothes that suit their taste, and decorate their apartments as they wish. Within limits, they can contrive a daily urban world that pleases them.
But the natural world is not so malleable. On the contrary, it will demand that you adapt to it-and if you don’t, you die. It is a harsh, powerful, and unforgiving world, that most urban westerners have never experienced.
Many years ago I was trekking in the Karakorum mountains of northern Pakistan, when my group came to a river that we had to cross. It was a glacial river, freezing cold, and it was running very fast, but it wasn’t deep—maybe three feet at most. My guide set out ropes for people to hold as they crossed the river, and everybody proceeded, one at a time, with extreme care. I asked the guide what was the big deal about crossing a three-foot river. He said, well, supposing you fell and suffered a compound fracture. We were now four days trek from the last big town, where there was a radio. Even if the guide went back double time to get help, it’d still be at least three days before he could return with a helicopter. If a helicopter were available at all. And in three days, I’d probably be dead from my injuries. So that was why everybody was crossing carefully. Because out in nature a little slip could be deadly.
But let’s return to religion. If Eden is a fantasy that never existed, and mankind wasn’t ever noble and kind and loving, if we didn’t fall from grace, then what about the rest of the religious tenets? What about salvation, sustainability, and judgment day? What about the coming environmental doom from fossil fuels and global warming, if we all don’t get down on our knees and conserve every day?
Well, it’s interesting. You may have noticed that something has been left off the doomsday list, lately. Although the preachers of environmentalism have been yelling about population for fifty years, over the last decade world population seems to be taking an unexpected turn. Fertility rates are falling almost everywhere. As a result, over the course of my lifetime the thoughtful predictions for total world population have gone from a high of 20 billion, to 15 billion, to 11 billion (which was the UN estimate around 1990) to now 9 billion, and soon, perhaps less. There are some who think that world population will peak in 2050 and then start to decline. There are some who predict we will have fewer people in 2100 than we do today. Is this a reason to rejoice, to say halleluiah? Certainly not. Without a pause, we now hear about the coming crisis of world economy from a shrinking population. We hear about the impending crisis of an aging population. Nobody anywhere will say that the core fears expressed for most of my life have turned out not to be true. As we have moved into the future, these doomsday visions vanished, like a mirage in the desert. They were never there—though they still appear, in the future. As mirages do.
Okay, so, the preachers made a mistake. They got one prediction wrong; they’re human. So what. Unfortunately, it’s not just one prediction. It’s a whole slew of them. We are running out of oil. We are running out of all natural resources. Paul Ehrlich: 60 million Americans will die of starvation in the 1980s. Forty thousand species become extinct every year. Half of all species on the planet will be extinct by 2000. And on and on and on.
With so many past failures, you might think that environmental predictions would become more cautious. But not if it’s a religion. Remember, the nut on the sidewalk carrying the placard that predicts the end of the world doesn’t quit when the world doesn’t end on the day he expects. He just changes his placard, sets a new doomsday date, and goes back to walking the streets. One of the defining features of religion is that your beliefs are not troubled by facts, because they have nothing to do with facts.
So I can tell you some facts. I know you haven’t read any of what I am about to tell you in the newspaper, because newspapers literally don’t report them. I can tell you that DDT is not a carcinogen and did not cause birds to die and should never have been banned. I can tell you that the people who banned it knew that it wasn’t carcinogenic and banned it anyway. I can tell you that the DDT ban has caused the deaths of tens of millions of poor people, mostly children, whose deaths are directly attributable to a callous, technologically advanced western society that promoted the new cause of environmentalism by pushing a fantasy about a pesticide, and thus irrevocably harmed the third world. Banning DDT is one of the most disgraceful episodes in the twentieth century history of America. We knew better, and we did it anyway, and we let people around the world die and didn’t give a damn.
I can tell you that second hand smoke is not a health hazard to anyone and never was, and the EPA has always known it. I can tell you that the evidence for global warming is far weaker than its proponents would ever admit. I can tell you the percentage the US land area that is taken by urbanization, including cities and roads, is 5%. I can tell you that the Sahara desert is shrinking, and the total ice of Antarctica is increasing. I can tell you that a blue-ribbon panel in Science magazine concluded that there is no known technology that will enable us to halt the rise of carbon dioxide in the 21st century. Not wind, not solar, not even nuclear. The panel concluded a totally new technology-like nuclear fusion-was necessary, otherwise nothing could be done and in the meantime all efforts would be a waste of time. They said that when the UN IPCC reports stated alternative technologies existed that could control greenhouse gases, the UN was wrong.
I can, with a lot of time, give you the factual basis for these views, and I can cite the appropriate journal articles not in whacko magazines, but in the most prestigeous science journals, such as Science and Nature. But such references probably won’t impact more than a handful of you, because the beliefs of a religion are not dependant on facts, but rather are matters of faith. Unshakeable belief.
Most of us have had some experience interacting with religious fundamentalists, and we understand that one of the problems with fundamentalists is that they have no perspective on themselves. They never recognize that their way of thinking is just one of many other possible ways of thinking, which may be equally useful or good. On the contrary, they believe their way is the right way, everyone else is wrong; they are in the business of salvation, and they want to help you to see things the right way. They want to help you be saved. They are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view. In our modern complex world, fundamentalism is dangerous because of its rigidity and its imperviousness to other ideas.
I want to argue that it is now time for us to make a major shift in our thinking about the environment, similar to the shift that occurred around the first Earth Day in 1970, when this awareness was first heightened. But this time around, we need to get environmentalism out of the sphere of religion. We need to stop the mythic fantasies, and we need to stop the doomsday predictions. We need to start doing hard science instead.
There are two reasons why I think we all need to get rid of the religion of environmentalism.
First, we need an environmental movement, and such a movement is not very effective if it is conducted as a religion. We know from history that religions tend to kill people, and environmentalism has already killed somewhere between 10-30 million people since the 1970s. It’s not a good record. Environmentalism needs to be absolutely based in objective and verifiable science, it needs to be rational, and it needs to be flexible. And it needs to be apolitical. To mix environmental concerns with the frantic fantasies that people have about one political party or another is to miss the cold truth—that there is very little difference between the parties, except a difference in pandering rhetoric. The effort to promote effective legislation for the environment is not helped by thinking that the Democrats will save us and the Republicans won’t. Political history is more complicated than that. Never forget which president started the EPA: Richard Nixon. And never forget which president sold federal oil leases, allowing oil drilling in Santa Barbara: Lyndon Johnson. So get politics out of your thinking about the environment.
The second reason to abandon environmental religion is more pressing. Religions think they know it all, but the unhappy truth of the environment is that we are dealing with incredibly complex, evolving systems, and we usually are not certain how best to proceed. Those who are certain are demonstrating their personality type, or their belief system, not the state of their knowledge. Our record in the past, for example managing national parks, is humiliating. Our fifty-year effort at forest-fire suppression is a well-intentioned disaster from which our forests will never recover. We need to be humble, deeply humble, in the face of what we are trying to accomplish. We need to be trying various methods of accomplishing things. We need to be open-minded about assessing results of our efforts, and we need to be flexible about balancing needs. Religions are good at none of these things.
How will we manage to get environmentalism out of the clutches of religion, and back to a scientific discipline? There’s a simple answer: we must institute far more stringent requirements for what constitutes knowledge in the environmental realm. I am thoroughly sick of politicized so-called facts that simply aren’t true. It isn’t that these “facts” are exaggerations of an underlying truth. Nor is it that certain organizations are spinning their case to present it in the strongest way. Not at all—what more and more groups are doing is putting out is lies, pure and simple. Falsehoods that they know to be false.
This trend began with the DDT campaign, and it persists to this day. At this moment, the EPA is hopelessly politicized. In the wake of Carol Browner, it is probably better to shut it down and start over. What we need is a new organization much closer to the FDA. We need an organization that will be ruthless about acquiring verifiable results, that will fund identical research projects to more than one group, and that will make everybody in this field get honest fast.
Because in the end, science offers us the only way out of politics. And if we allow science to become politicized, then we are lost. We will enter the Internet version of the dark ages, an era of shifting fears and wild prejudices, transmitted to people who don’t know any better. That’s not a good future for the human race. That’s our past. So it’s time to abandon the religion of environmentalism, and return to the science of environmentalism, and base our public policy decisions firmly on that.
Thank you very much.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:18 pm
Michael Crichton is a fine author and television screenplay writer. He learns enough science to write page turning novels.
Arthur Conan Doyle, the creator of Sherlock Holmes, and a writer of similar caliber, was taken in by faked photographs of “fairies”.
You need to evaluate how qualified people are to offer opinions.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:03 pm
He’s clearly qualified to offer an opinion. Are you an Anthropologist?
Seriously.
Are you?
You didn’t even read the speech! Fool.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:29 pm
And, you biased dumbass, Hitler thought Einstein’s theories were “wrong” because Einstein was a JEW!
So was Jesus. Tell that to your local KKK chapter.
I’ll repost.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:31 pm
You won’t read this because there’s a chance it might change your mind.
A speech by Author (and Anthropologist) Michael Crichton to the Commonwealth Club.
have been asked to talk about what I consider the most important challenge facing mankind, and I have a fundamental answer. The greatest challenge facing mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda. Perceiving the truth has always been a challenge to mankind, but in the information age (or as I think of it, the disinformation age) it takes on a special urgency and importance.
We must daily decide whether the threats we face are real, whether the solutions we are offered will do any good, whether the problems we’re told exist are in fact real problems, or non-problems. Every one of us has a sense of the world, and we all know that this sense is in part given to us by what other people and society tell us; in part generated by our emotional state, which we project outward; and in part by our genuine perceptions of reality. In short, our struggle to determine what is true is the struggle to decide which of our perceptions are genuine, and which are false because they are handed down, or sold to us, or generated by our own hopes and fears.
As an example of this challenge, I want to talk today about environmentalism. And in order not to be misunderstood, I want it perfectly clear that I believe it is incumbent on us to conduct our lives in a way that takes into account all the consequences of our actions, including the consequences to other people, and the consequences to the environment. I believe it is important to act in ways that are sympathetic to the environment, and I believe this will always be a need, carrying into the future. I believe the world has genuine problems and I believe it can and should be improved. But I also think that deciding what constitutes responsible action is immensely difficult, and the consequences of our actions are often difficult to know in advance. I think our past record of environmental action is discouraging, to put it mildly, because even our best intended efforts often go awry. But I think we do not recognize our past failures, and face them squarely. And I think I know why.
I studied anthropology in college, and one of the things I learned was that certain human social structures always reappear. They can’t be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion. Today it is said we live in a secular society in which many people—the best people, the most enlightened people—do not believe in any religion. But I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely re-emerges in another form. You can not believe in God, but you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.
Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it’s a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.
Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday—these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don’t want to talk anybody out of them, as I don’t want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don’t want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can’t talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith.
And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren’t necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief. It’s about whether you are going to be a sinner, or saved. Whether you are going to be one of the people on the side of salvation, or on the side of doom. Whether you are going to be one of us, or one of them.
Am I exaggerating to make a point? I am afraid not. Because we know a lot more about the world than we did forty or fifty years ago. And what we know now is not so supportive of certain core environmental myths, yet the myths do not die. Let’s examine some of those beliefs.
There is no Eden. There never was. What was that Eden of the wonderful mythic past? Is it the time when infant mortality was 80%, when four children in five died of disease before the age of five? When one woman in six died in childbirth? When the average lifespan was 40, as it was in America a century ago. When plagues swept across the planet, killing millions in a stroke. Was it when millions starved to death? Is that when it was Eden?
And what about indigenous peoples, living in a state of harmony with the Eden-like environment? Well, they never did. On this continent, the newly arrived people who crossed the land bridge almost immediately set about wiping out hundreds of species of large animals, and they did this several thousand years before the white man showed up, to accelerate the process. And what was the condition of life? Loving, peaceful, harmonious? Hardly: the early peoples of the New World lived in a state of constant warfare. Generations of hatred, tribal hatreds, constant battles. The warlike tribes of this continent are famous: the Comanche, Sioux, Apache, Mohawk, Aztecs, Toltec, Incas. Some of them practiced infanticide, and human sacrifice. And those tribes that were not fiercely warlike were exterminated, or learned to build their villages high in the cliffs to attain some measure of safety.
How about the human condition in the rest of the world? The Maori of New Zealand committed massacres regularly. The dyaks of Borneo were headhunters. The Polynesians, living in an environment as close to paradise as one can imagine, fought constantly, and created a society so hideously restrictive that you could lose your life if you stepped in the footprint of a chief. It was the Polynesians who gave us the very concept of taboo, as well as the word itself. The noble savage is a fantasy, and it was never true. That anyone still believes it, 200 years after Rousseau, shows the tenacity of religious myths, their ability to hang on in the face of centuries of factual contradiction.
There was even an academic movement, during the latter 20th century, that claimed that cannibalism was a white man’s invention to demonize the indigenous peoples. (Only academics could fight such a battle.) It was some thirty years before professors finally agreed that yes, cannibalism does inbdeed occur among human beings. Meanwhile, all during this time New Guinea highlanders in the 20th century continued to eat the brains of their enemies until they were finally made to understand that they risked kuru, a fatal neurological disease, when they did so.
More recently still the gentle Tasaday of the Philippines turned out to be a publicity stunt, a nonexistent tribe. And African pygmies have one of the highest murder rates on the planet.
In short, the romantic view of the natural world as a blissful Eden is only held by people who have no actual experience of nature. People who live in nature are not romantic about it at all. They may hold spiritual beliefs about the world around them, they may have a sense of the unity of nature or the aliveness of all things, but they still kill the animals and uproot the plants in order to eat, to live. If they don’t, they will die.
And if you, even now, put yourself in nature even for a matter of days, you will quickly be disabused of all your romantic fantasies. Take a trek through the jungles of Borneo, and in short order you will have festering sores on your skin, you’ll have bugs all over your body, biting in your hair, crawling up your nose and into your ears, you’ll have infections and sickness and if you’re not with somebody who knows what they’re doing, you’ll quickly starve to death. But chances are that even in the jungles of Borneo you won’t experience nature so directly, because you will have covered your entire body with DEET and you will be doing everything you can to keep those bugs off you.
The truth is, almost nobody wants to experience real nature. What people want is to spend a week or two in a cabin in the woods, with screens on the windows. They want a simplified life for a while, without all their stuff. Or a nice river rafting trip for a few days, with somebody else doing the cooking. Nobody wants to go back to nature in any real way, and nobody does. It’s all talk-and as the years go on, and the world population grows increasingly urban, it’s uninformed talk. Farmers know what they’re talking about. City people don’t. It’s all fantasy.
One way to measure the prevalence of fantasy is to note the number of people who die because they haven’t the least knowledge of how nature really is. They stand beside wild animals, like buffalo, for a picture and get trampled to death; they climb a mountain in dicey weather without proper gear, and freeze to death. They drown in the surf on holiday because they can’t conceive the real power of what we blithely call “the force of nature.” They have seen the ocean. But they haven’t been in it.
The television generation expects nature to act the way they want it to be. They think all life experiences can be tivo-ed. The notion that the natural world obeys its own rules and doesn’t give a damn about your expectations comes as a massive shock. Well-to-do, educated people in an urban environment experience the ability to fashion their daily lives as they wish. They buy clothes that suit their taste, and decorate their apartments as they wish. Within limits, they can contrive a daily urban world that pleases them.
But the natural world is not so malleable. On the contrary, it will demand that you adapt to it-and if you don’t, you die. It is a harsh, powerful, and unforgiving world, that most urban westerners have never experienced.
Many years ago I was trekking in the Karakorum mountains of northern Pakistan, when my group came to a river that we had to cross. It was a glacial river, freezing cold, and it was running very fast, but it wasn’t deep—maybe three feet at most. My guide set out ropes for people to hold as they crossed the river, and everybody proceeded, one at a time, with extreme care. I asked the guide what was the big deal about crossing a three-foot river. He said, well, supposing you fell and suffered a compound fracture. We were now four days trek from the last big town, where there was a radio. Even if the guide went back double time to get help, it’d still be at least three days before he could return with a helicopter. If a helicopter were available at all. And in three days, I’d probably be dead from my injuries. So that was why everybody was crossing carefully. Because out in nature a little slip could be deadly.
But let’s return to religion. If Eden is a fantasy that never existed, and mankind wasn’t ever noble and kind and loving, if we didn’t fall from grace, then what about the rest of the religious tenets? What about salvation, sustainability, and judgment day? What about the coming environmental doom from fossil fuels and global warming, if we all don’t get down on our knees and conserve every day?
Well, it’s interesting. You may have noticed that something has been left off the doomsday list, lately. Although the preachers of environmentalism have been yelling about population for fifty years, over the last decade world population seems to be taking an unexpected turn. Fertility rates are falling almost everywhere. As a result, over the course of my lifetime the thoughtful predictions for total world population have gone from a high of 20 billion, to 15 billion, to 11 billion (which was the UN estimate around 1990) to now 9 billion, and soon, perhaps less. There are some who think that world population will peak in 2050 and then start to decline. There are some who predict we will have fewer people in 2100 than we do today. Is this a reason to rejoice, to say halleluiah? Certainly not. Without a pause, we now hear about the coming crisis of world economy from a shrinking population. We hear about the impending crisis of an aging population. Nobody anywhere will say that the core fears expressed for most of my life have turned out not to be true. As we have moved into the future, these doomsday visions vanished, like a mirage in the desert. They were never there—though they still appear, in the future. As mirages do.
Okay, so, the preachers made a mistake. They got one prediction wrong; they’re human. So what. Unfortunately, it’s not just one prediction. It’s a whole slew of them. We are running out of oil. We are running out of all natural resources. Paul Ehrlich: 60 million Americans will die of starvation in the 1980s. Forty thousand species become extinct every year. Half of all species on the planet will be extinct by 2000. And on and on and on.
With so many past failures, you might think that environmental predictions would become more cautious. But not if it’s a religion. Remember, the nut on the sidewalk carrying the placard that predicts the end of the world doesn’t quit when the world doesn’t end on the day he expects. He just changes his placard, sets a new doomsday date, and goes back to walking the streets. One of the defining features of religion is that your beliefs are not troubled by facts, because they have nothing to do with facts.
So I can tell you some facts. I know you haven’t read any of what I am about to tell you in the newspaper, because newspapers literally don’t report them. I can tell you that DDT is not a carcinogen and did not cause birds to die and should never have been banned. I can tell you that the people who banned it knew that it wasn’t carcinogenic and banned it anyway. I can tell you that the DDT ban has caused the deaths of tens of millions of poor people, mostly children, whose deaths are directly attributable to a callous, technologically advanced western society that promoted the new cause of environmentalism by pushing a fantasy about a pesticide, and thus irrevocably harmed the third world. Banning DDT is one of the most disgraceful episodes in the twentieth century history of America. We knew better, and we did it anyway, and we let people around the world die and didn’t give a damn.
I can tell you that second hand smoke is not a health hazard to anyone and never was, and the EPA has always known it. I can tell you that the evidence for global warming is far weaker than its proponents would ever admit. I can tell you the percentage the US land area that is taken by urbanization, including cities and roads, is 5%. I can tell you that the Sahara desert is shrinking, and the total ice of Antarctica is increasing. I can tell you that a blue-ribbon panel in Science magazine concluded that there is no known technology that will enable us to halt the rise of carbon dioxide in the 21st century. Not wind, not solar, not even nuclear. The panel concluded a totally new technology-like nuclear fusion-was necessary, otherwise nothing could be done and in the meantime all efforts would be a waste of time. They said that when the UN IPCC reports stated alternative technologies existed that could control greenhouse gases, the UN was wrong.
I can, with a lot of time, give you the factual basis for these views, and I can cite the appropriate journal articles not in whacko magazines, but in the most prestigeous science journals, such as Science and Nature. But such references probably won’t impact more than a handful of you, because the beliefs of a religion are not dependant on facts, but rather are matters of faith. Unshakeable belief.
Most of us have had some experience interacting with religious fundamentalists, and we understand that one of the problems with fundamentalists is that they have no perspective on themselves. They never recognize that their way of thinking is just one of many other possible ways of thinking, which may be equally useful or good. On the contrary, they believe their way is the right way, everyone else is wrong; they are in the business of salvation, and they want to help you to see things the right way. They want to help you be saved. They are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view. In our modern complex world, fundamentalism is dangerous because of its rigidity and its imperviousness to other ideas.
I want to argue that it is now time for us to make a major shift in our thinking about the environment, similar to the shift that occurred around the first Earth Day in 1970, when this awareness was first heightened. But this time around, we need to get environmentalism out of the sphere of religion. We need to stop the mythic fantasies, and we need to stop the doomsday predictions. We need to start doing hard science instead.
There are two reasons why I think we all need to get rid of the religion of environmentalism.
First, we need an environmental movement, and such a movement is not very effective if it is conducted as a religion. We know from history that religions tend to kill people, and environmentalism has already killed somewhere between 10-30 million people since the 1970s. It’s not a good record. Environmentalism needs to be absolutely based in objective and verifiable science, it needs to be rational, and it needs to be flexible. And it needs to be apolitical. To mix environmental concerns with the frantic fantasies that people have about one political party or another is to miss the cold truth—that there is very little difference between the parties, except a difference in pandering rhetoric. The effort to promote effective legislation for the environment is not helped by thinking that the Democrats will save us and the Republicans won’t. Political history is more complicated than that. Never forget which president started the EPA: Richard Nixon. And never forget which president sold federal oil leases, allowing oil drilling in Santa Barbara: Lyndon Johnson. So get politics out of your thinking about the environment.
The second reason to abandon environmental religion is more pressing. Religions think they know it all, but the unhappy truth of the environment is that we are dealing with incredibly complex, evolving systems, and we usually are not certain how best to proceed. Those who are certain are demonstrating their personality type, or their belief system, not the state of their knowledge. Our record in the past, for example managing national parks, is humiliating. Our fifty-year effort at forest-fire suppression is a well-intentioned disaster from which our forests will never recover. We need to be humble, deeply humble, in the face of what we are trying to accomplish. We need to be trying various methods of accomplishing things. We need to be open-minded about assessing results of our efforts, and we need to be flexible about balancing needs. Religions are good at none of these things.
How will we manage to get environmentalism out of the clutches of religion, and back to a scientific discipline? There’s a simple answer: we must institute far more stringent requirements for what constitutes knowledge in the environmental realm. I am thoroughly sick of politicized so-called facts that simply aren’t true. It isn’t that these “facts” are exaggerations of an underlying truth. Nor is it that certain organizations are spinning their case to present it in the strongest way. Not at all—what more and more groups are doing is putting out is lies, pure and simple. Falsehoods that they know to be false.
This trend began with the DDT campaign, and it persists to this day. At this moment, the EPA is hopelessly politicized. In the wake of Carol Browner, it is probably better to shut it down and start over. What we need is a new organization much closer to the FDA. We need an organization that will be ruthless about acquiring verifiable results, that will fund identical research projects to more than one group, and that will make everybody in this field get honest fast.
Because in the end, science offers us the only way out of politics. And if we allow science to become politicized, then we are lost. We will enter the Internet version of the dark ages, an era of shifting fears and wild prejudices, transmitted to people who don’t know any better. That’s not a good future for the human race. That’s our past. So it’s time to abandon the religion of environmentalism, and return to the science of environmentalism, and base our public policy decisions firmly on that.
Thank you very much.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:58 pm
I read his dumb speech when he made it last year. A good review of State of Fear can be found on the Weather Underground.
The point is, he’s not a meteorologist. His anthropological views about environmentalism qua religion have no bearing on the data (and by the way, he’s not an anthropologist either). His “urban heat island” theory has been soundly refuted, and his point about North Atlantic hurricanes is off base because the increase in hurricanes is global, which means the North Atlantic oscillation can’t account for the increase. The simplest explanation is global warming.
I mean, honestly. Part of critical thinking is judging who has the background to offer sound judgement. I don’t ask my dentist to fix my car, or my plumber to perform open heart surgery.
Thanks for reposting, though. Your skill with a text editor is truly outstanding, and you’ve certainly mastered ad hominem rhetorical techniques. Apparently you also believe that none of our computers are capable of scrolling.
I think we should probably move this discussion to the global warming section of this site and return to the topic of additional hurricanes, OK?
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:01 pm
I likes to kells me sum blak peepul. Mah sistuh Rita es a cumin. She likes to kells huh sum blak peepul to. She a turnin fuh Louisiana jes like I did. I dun care if I kells me most white peepuls. Es the blak peepul I try and kells. Bush tells me go here so I do and I tells Rita the same. Rita a good gull.
September 24th, 2005 at 12:09 pm
Hey Tag, you’re it.
You’re the blinder in full view.
Tell me, if you can, how many times Florida (as we now know it) has been under water?
Can you? Maybe you should doubt your own “critical thinking” and open your mind a bit?
September 24th, 2005 at 5:16 pm
Let’s take this discussion over to “Global Warming and Katrina”
Just for the record:
1) The link between global warming and Katrina is tenuous at best
2) but it is probably happening and man made
3) Crichton is a flaming idiot
September 24th, 2005 at 8:52 pm
You didn’t answer my question, blinder.
September 24th, 2005 at 9:12 pm
Looks like Tommy f’d up. Hey dipshit, you have to remember to change your name if you’re going to impersonate people.
I like his point, though. You DIDN’T answer the question… AND this is the right forum.
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