Why weren’t the school busses used?
Alot of people point out that hundreds of school busses could have been used to evacuate the people of New Orleans who didn’t have cars or other means of transportation before the hurricane struck.
I think that they do have a valid point on this issue and I’ve looked all over the net to try to find an answer to this question only in vain. Why weren’t the school busses used?
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September 5th, 2005 at 12:57 am
Because we have a chimpanzee in office
September 5th, 2005 at 1:18 am
Um surgen, It would have been up to the mayor to use them. The mayor chose not to do so. I know he is not the chimp you mentioned, but even you can’t blame the President for this one. Well, I guess you could, but……….
September 5th, 2005 at 1:23 am
yep, you’re right, the chimp I’m referring to is Bush
September 5th, 2005 at 1:50 am
Again, the MAYOR was the one who chose NOT to utilize those buses. He should have.
September 5th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The mayor and governor sat on their asses before the hurricane, when they should have acted. Now they are pointing their fingers at the feds. Why do people point fingers? Usually to avert attention from their own failings.
The local government knew a category 4+ hurricane was on its way. They gave permission for the local hotels to stay open to take people in. They encouraged everyone to come to the superdome with only the provisions they brought themselves. They could have put them on buses to join the convoy out. Now it’s everyone else’s fault.
September 5th, 2005 at 1:53 am
surgen you have every right to bitch about Bush that is the beauty of living in a free country. But your hatred is blinding you from the truth.
It is the Mayors job to have a GOOD Hurricane Preparedness Plan and it is his responsiblity to inact that plan when needed. The City of NO buses (school and city) should have been part of his evacution plan. Mayor Nagin dropped the ball on this one not Bush.
just the voice of reason
September 5th, 2005 at 1:57 am
Remember the warning from the National Hurricane Center in Miami release about 36 hours before landfall. It spelled out very clearly how bad thing could get in NO yet the Mayor did nothing to evacuate his citizens.
September 5th, 2005 at 1:59 am
You are right; the first people who dropped the ball are the corrupt local leaders and then the do nothing governor continued with a “do nothing” take.
Why in the world no one had a “plan” after years of saying this exact scenario could take place, is simply beyond comprehension.
If anyone would look at the statutes, the local leaders are the first line of defense. There was no plan in place - everything went to hell in a handbasket.
September 5th, 2005 at 1:59 am
I agree that the Mayor and local officials should be first to accept blame before they point at the Federal Gov’t (who also holds blame.) I wonder though, since after 9/11 all the victims families received millions of dollars as some kind of payment… will the victims of Katrina also receive such consideration?? I think they deserve it more than 9/11 (unless of course the gov’t knew about that too… but that’s another story…)
September 5th, 2005 at 2:04 am
AGAIN, have an incompetent chimpanzee in the white house
September 5th, 2005 at 2:08 am
Surgen, your debate is lacking some depth.
September 5th, 2005 at 2:08 am
The chain of incompetence goes from Mayor Nagin to Blanco, to most of the federal agencies’ heads and then to the President himself. All have failed.
September 5th, 2005 at 2:11 am
Again it is the city and state responsible for evacuation procedures. So the chimp you should be referring to is the mayor and governor of Louisianna. So skip the blame for President Bush on this one. Point the finger at the right person. Thats right though you are the ignorant americans that unfortunately have have a loud voice and are overopinionated.
September 5th, 2005 at 2:13 am
Maybe they didn’t have drivers… who knows… please spread the word about my blog where I write about surviving while floating on a car…
September 5th, 2005 at 2:30 am
Prior to, during and after the storm…this is America. We do not compell people to do things at gunpoint, even when it is in their best interests. Had those school buses been used to evacuate those who wanted to stay many would have had to be compelled in just such a manner. Had the hurricane gone somewhere else, old people and babies would have died during the evacuation. Those school busses are not air conditioned. The aftermath would have been a similar degree of anger and second guessing and many people would have brought suit against the city, state and anyone else they thought were responsible. That is why the local and state government hesitated to give the evacuation order and thus for many New Orleans ran out of time. That is the political reality of our country. I hesitate to suggest anything as a solution that interferes with a citizens right to make stupid mistakes, because I want to retain that right for myself. And that climate in our wonderful country is why we have drug problems, economic problems, and a huge devide between haves and have nots. We could fix a lot of our problems real easily, if we are willing to give up a few civil liberties. I for one am not willing to, and I truly believe that America is the best place in the world to live, and that we can continue to improve as a nation and a culture and still keep our civil liberties intact.
September 5th, 2005 at 2:31 am
i’m not debating, i’m just saying we have a chimpanzee in office
September 5th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Good thing chimpanzees aren’t citizens. They would sue you for libel, surgen.
September 5th, 2005 at 2:41 am
hahaaa LMAO Denese thanks for the chuckle
September 5th, 2005 at 2:47 am
Denese-
Who said anything about forcing people onto buses at gunpoint? We continue to hear that people who wanted to leave could not. They were not allowed the choice. Yes those buses are hot, awful and not air-conditioned. My son rides one in FL every day. Nobody here is talking about a premature unnecessary evacuation effort, we’re talking about last Sunday when the mandatory evac was called. And you’re right. Sadly, some may not have survived the trip. However, they should have had a way out and a choice.
September 5th, 2005 at 2:55 am
the mayor and governor could have made that call. Gee, the President runs the entire country and tries to help make the entire world better. NOT in charge of every municpal decision–that is why we have STATES, Governors, mayors, town councils…….it isn’t even Bush’s jurisdiction to say “let’ roll the busses before the hurricane hits” it is the chimp mayor who screwed up and now is pointing fingers at everyone else for not having done anything, because he wants to be re-elected, so it can’t be his fault, right?
and, oh, wait…….he’s a democrat, so it has to be bush’s fault. Gezz folks. Enough!!!
September 5th, 2005 at 3:04 am
In this article from National Geographics from october 2004 it was predicted the tragedy on New Orleans. Also, the FAMA knew perfectly what can happen.
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/
It says in part:
“As the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 pleople remained, however—the car-less, the homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who look for any excuse to throw a party. ”
“Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes (…) people climbed onto roofs to escape it.”
“Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry”
September 5th, 2005 at 3:05 am
btw in my blog I have many updated info & images in spanish about the tragedy… please help to propagate it.
September 5th, 2005 at 3:05 am
All that you all are saying is true……No doubt, lets place blame. The Mayor. He didnt do what was expected. No one can change that. Thousands of human beings are DEAD. At this point today. NO ONE CAN CHANGE THAT. If Bush and the Federal Big Wigs had acted the day after Katrina, all of the events that occurred thus far would not have. It took a WHOLE WEEK! to get enough troop support, food and medical attention to our fellow americans. Not to mention them not having adequate toileting. Yes, the Mayor and Govenor dropped the ball but it was the next higher ups “BUSH” and his Folks who should have made it all better. Whose bright idea was it to drop dog gone sand bags. Does anyone really think sand bags are going to mend the problem or hold back the water…….Yeah rite…….Sand bags. One big mess. What statement does this make to the world and the United Nations about the Great Powerful USA? A natural disaster happens and look at the MESS. It is absolutely ridiculous. Our troops need to be home where they can make a difference. We need to first take care of home.
September 5th, 2005 at 3:24 am
georgia peach (one of my favorite fruits)
There is a legal chain of command and legal procedures that have to be folllowed. The founding fathers gave the local, city, state gov’t powers to avoid the fed gov’t from over taking the smaller entities. Gov Blanco has not yet declared a state of emergency in LA. This means that the Fed gov’t does not have the legal authority to manage this disaster in LA. Both MISS and AL Govs declared SOE before the strom hit. Gov Blanco is still making hugh mistakes in regard to what is best for the people of LA.
just thevoice of reason
September 5th, 2005 at 3:29 am
Pay attention to how much money the Morial administration stole and let that be a benchmark as to what the Nagin administration will put in their pockets. This is nothing more then a reason to put blame on the feds and and have the local governments pocket the taxpayers money. Pay close attention to who barks the loudest, he will be the one with the most to profit!!!!!!!!
September 5th, 2005 at 3:32 am
or the most to HIDE.
just the voice of reason
September 5th, 2005 at 3:44 am
Who said anything about leaving at gunpoint? I’ll tell you. An acquaintance who stayed in NO and is still there today as far as I know said that they only way they would leave their home is at gunpoint. They were heard from as safe when they called their stepkids Friday and said they weren’t coming for visitation because if they leave they can’t come back. Their house is still there and although they have no plumbing, food, water or electricity they are not leaving. Now, these are low income whites living in a small house with 8 people. They know how bad the rest of the city is because there have been at least 3 phone conversations with the outside…and they are still not leaving. They fear the rumors of armed gangs who will burn their home down. To this day, police would have to come get them and force them to leave. They have a decent car full of gas parked right in the carport. They have neighbors, black and white who feel the same. That’s who you would have had to compell at gunpoint to leave.
September 5th, 2005 at 4:08 am
Again, there are people who would not leave regardless of what could happen. I believe many of us wonder more about those who, unlike your acquaintance, WOULD have taken the chance to leave on a school bus if it were offered. Those who wanted to leave but did not have the means to do so. The problem is that many will still see your acquaintances as people that (choose one) the government, the administration, FEMA, DHS have ignored and left behind to ’suffer and starve’. I’m sorry, but after living through three hurricanes here in FL last year, I can tell you that there is nothing my family owns that is worth losing our lives over. My home can burn, float away, fall apart whatever. I want my family out alive. The way I see it, as long as you’re alive, you can reaccumulate the “things”. The most important things in life are, after all, not ‘things’ at all.
This IS a great country, and we DO all have choices. I firmly believe in the rights of others to make their own choices. We just can’t decide to place blame elsewhere when we do.
September 5th, 2005 at 4:17 am
Check for plans other cities in precarious situations have, do they have them? Are precautionary measures known? Funded? If not why?
Even before this New Orleans was jokingly reffered to as third world but I doubt the majority of the US has appropriate foresight either. Alot of them have surely started looking ahead. Before you vote for your leaders you should see whats on their policy, its the people’s fault too.
September 5th, 2005 at 4:24 am
Amen, Ezra.
Living in FL, we certainly seem to use those plans enough. If this catastrophe gets other local leaders on the ball to protect their citizens, then that’s a good thing. Sometimes it’s not only a matter of having a plan, but local leaders having the guts to make the tough calls to carry them out.
September 5th, 2005 at 4:57 am
Whose going to drive those school buses…oh wait that when the National Guard comes in and has mandatory evacuation. Hmm but they weren’t in the area they where stationed elsewhere and over seas in Iraq. Good plan but NO ONE TO CARRY IT OUT…FYI, the Gov. & Mayor would have made the call, but blame the african american man….not the white woman.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:10 am
I brought this story up oringially over on my site Bumpshack.com and the special page I made concerning katrina http://www.bumpshack.com/katrina.htm
I have also linked to other angles and critisims of Mr Ray Nagin.
I have even posted the wording from Louisiana’s Hurricane emergency plan that talks about using the buses to evacuate. In my estimation there were over 400 school buses and almost as many city buses 800 buses could have done the job QUICK……the buses were located 1 mile from the Superdome..
Email me with your responses. I just dont get it.
God bless everyone chipping in to help out.
Moderator edit: 1 link is enough
September 5th, 2005 at 5:12 am
no a.c. in the buses? come on that is lame, especially considering most buses were shipped in to haul people off when the job was finally done….ever been on a school bus? on the interstate? when you are going with the windows down you have more air than you know what to do with and being on a bus getting out of there is better than melting in the heat outside or in the Superdome.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:16 am
Also you can just look at the Mayors name to figure out who is to blame
Ray Nagin
which is like
Reneging
re·nege ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ng, -ng, -ng)
v. re·neged, re·neg·ing, re·neges
v. intr.
To fail to carry out a promise or commitment: reneged on the contract at the last minute.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:26 am
for any jackasses blaming the poor for not leaving, go see what this middle-class, educated white journalist had to say about the evacuation orders for hurricane dennis back in July:
http://nolagrit.blogspot.com/2005/07/sky-is-falling.html
The rest of her blog is also fascinating, BTW.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:26 am
Who was going to drive those buses? Oh wait-that’s supposed to be a part of the plan-where the people can get on the buses, who drives the buses, and where they take people. There’s enough blame for both the mayor and the governor, but he bears responsibility for his city’s residents. He missed the call, his emergency people missed the call, and she (the white woman?) did too. Oh, the governor, she neglected to activate her own National Guard. So you’re right, maybe they could have driven the buses, but where was the plan?? Where were the choices for all those people who had no cars and no money? Don’t try to make everything about race. I could not care less what color anyone is, was or will be. I do care about the people who were not given every option to leave the city safely. Perhaps, as it seems to have turned out later on, some of the evacuees could have driven the buses. I have no idea how to drive a bus, but if doing so was all that was standing between having my family safe or in harm’s way-I’d be finding a way to move that bus. Perhaps those who were left behind would have done the same. Leave the racism out of this, please.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:29 am
Another disraceful display of the lack of leadership and accountabilty in this country!
September 5th, 2005 at 5:40 am
Hmmm… use buses to evacuate. That would take way to much common
sense. Instead let’s use the GhettoDome as shelter.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:43 am
This is way out of control.
EVERYONE WHO READS THIS PUT YOUR FIST IN THE AIR AND SAY HELL YEAH TO THOSE CARRYING WEAPONS AND HELPING TO SAVE THOSE IN DISTRESS!! THESE PEOPLE ARE GOD SENDS!!!
Yes, their leaders are a different story. Those that have volunteered for the Armed Forces and are putting their life on the line should be our true heroes. All the arm-chair quarterbacks out there, these people are the real thing. LET IT BE KNOWN!! Go hug your kids.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:48 am
Way out of control,
Amen. There cannot be enough said about those who sacrifice to keep us free, safe, and able to sit here and debate what can be viewed as ’small stuff’. May we never cease to be grateful.
September 5th, 2005 at 6:04 am
Hmm. Who would have driven the buses? Well, one 20-year old young man “borrowed” one of those buses, loaded it with people (they didn’t seem to mind the lack of A.C.) and drove it to the Astrodome. Seems to me that anyone with the will and a valid driver’s license could have done it.
September 5th, 2005 at 6:27 am
In the future, vote for people with foresight and leadership. Not someone that pursues ventures in his/her own benifit. The corrupt in new orleans to the corrupt in the White House.
September 5th, 2005 at 6:29 am
Yes, a bus is pretty cool with windows down on the interstate going 45 mph or even 35 mph. But it took 10 hours during the height of the evacuation to drive 60 miles. Thats 6 miles per hour. Average. Lots of time spent going 0 mph. Those busses would have been ovens. Lots of people would have gotten sick. Some would have died. In hindsight that is better than what happened. But no one was seeing the future on Saturday. If the hurricane had spared NO, those people on those busses would have created a political fireball. The local and state politicians were afraid to take the chance. Hell, they almost talked themselves out of even giving the evacuation order at all.
September 5th, 2005 at 6:45 am
Your right about a slow evac. on interstates, isn’t that part of planning? I saw some scenes of only one side of the interstate being used. As far as that goes, why not open several lanes of the highway coming into NO for outgoing mass transit buses. We can all plan well, can we implement. The warning signs have been out for years and were ignored by all. Remember this hurricane did move just before landfall. If it had not, the superdome, convention center, and most of NO would be gone. The storm surge of over 25ft would have taken it all out. We may have several thousand dead from the flooding, poor implementation of plans, but if Katrina hadn’t weakened and moved north when it did, we would be talking a death toll on the magnitude of the tsunami. God works in mysterious ways.
September 5th, 2005 at 6:52 am
At the very least all highways were one way out before the storm
September 5th, 2005 at 7:05 am
I live in the Tampa bay area, and have been through a few very close calls - the local Government has always led the way with evacuation planning. You don’t hear from the Feds until after the event. In my view, the fault lies with the locals for not evacuating more efficiently, and the Feds for not being there soon enough following Katrina.
We have had mandatory evacuations and not once can I remember school buses being used, or even suggested. If Charley had hit Tampa Bay, my guess is that all the school buses would have still been parked.
The bottom line is that a hurricane is a slow event allowing for plenty of time to plan. This one hit pretty close to the forecast, anyone watching knew what was going to happen. Hell, I called this one as it passed by out in the Gulf, it was pretty obvious. The C-130’s should have been packed, the Guard on high alert and ready to go. Go figure…..
One last thing and I’ll shut up, in Pinellas County, where I live, Hurricane preparedness is taken seriously. The local media does a great job, starting in late Spring of reminding the residents to get ready. Inserts in the newspaper, news specials, etc., are a daily ritual. I think that education can help, and I wonder how much of that goes on in the areas affected by Katrina.
It’s also kind of scary living in a hurricane prone area. The 200″ of snow that I left behind when I moved here don’t seem so bad these days.
September 5th, 2005 at 7:10 am
It is the same old story. A disaster strikes and everyone wants to blame the government for doing too little or too much. Come on people. Take some responsibility for your actions instead of blaming others or making excuses. How many of you have a plan for disasters? If not, why not. It is much easier to do nothing and blame someone else.
September 5th, 2005 at 7:24 am
Both Mayor “Renege” (hat tip 2 joshua LMAO) and Gov Blanco have committed political suicide. If the people of NO and LA reelect this 2 fools it would amaze me.
Tonyfromtampa I have seen that handle on another board. Do you know a guy name Neil?
just the voice of reason
September 5th, 2005 at 7:49 am
Mr. Reason,
Exactly. How many of you have any water stockpiled right now? Got any batteries? Food you can eat without cooking? Sterno? Lanterns? Got a weeks worth of medicines you take? Have a plan with your family what to do in an emergency? How much do you know about the natural disasters your area is prone to, and what to do in an event? All Americans, as they look through their pantries for stuff they can donate, need to make sure that their own emergency supplies are there. So that during the next earthquake, fire, snowstorm, tornado or hurricane they will not have to depend on help that may be slow in coming.
September 5th, 2005 at 8:02 am
Denese after living in (Hurricane Central) South FL for 23 years including Hurricane Andrew in’92 I do not take hurricane preparedness lightly. I have just about everyting I need to endure a CAT 1 thru 3. CAT 4 and above I grap my pet bird and important papers and get out of dodge. Planning and prudent action before the strom saves lives. I mayor Negin share that attitude less people would have died in NO.
just the voice of reason
September 5th, 2005 at 8:16 am
There will be enough time after some order has been restored to place blame. The question remains as to why it took days to get aid to those who were trapped in New Orleans. That responsibility falls under the umbrella of the agency that has the ability to provide such. There is only one such entity that could have acted to lessen the suffering of those poor human beings. They did not live up to their duty. I need not point a finger, we all know where that responsibility belongs.
September 5th, 2005 at 8:33 am
Well Bill,
We may all know now who has the capability, but apparently they didn’t know they had it at the time. I don’t think the lack of response was maliciious or racist or with ideas of genocide as some people have suggested. But certainly there was gross negligence. And possibly criminal negligence, as the courts may eventually have to determine.
September 5th, 2005 at 8:40 am
It’s simple…1) our government wanted to hide it’s head in the sand in regards to the seriousness of this storm. The elected officials are more worried about the money markets than they are about people. If you’re white, and have money than you are “in”. If you are poor, of color, elderly, you have no voice and therefore no need to be saved or helped. As Americans we should be OUTRAGED, no matter what our background. People are people. When people feel left behind and abandoned they act in desparate ways. What can we expect? The gulf area resembles a 3rd world country, and it’s right in our backyard. We as Americans need to step up and say this will not stand. Send money to the gutted FEMA and other local organizations that are trying to help. The Bush administration has lied to us all and it needs to stop.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:05 am
Reason,
I agree again. I think you will agree with me that there should have been people in place to deal with things on a grassroots level. These people should have been trained to problem solve in their particular location, gather and conserve resources, organized the able bodied in to work details triaged the sick, provide first aid , even dig honey trenches for human waste.. The things that could have been done to improve things on site at the Super Dome and civic center, I learned in Girl Scouts as a kid. However, I must admit that when I was a kid, people truly feared a nuclear disaster, and realized that even children may be in situations that they would have to organize their own survival. So we learned all kinds of weird stuff like the above. But I can’t believe that apparently, those survival skills are now lost or that we don’t have citizen leaders to put them to use.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:08 am
tHE PRESIDENT has more power over anyone in this country. If Bush were to decide to let everyone out of New Orleans, our military would have to do so. The President has power over the mayor. Yes it is the mayors fault because he is in charge of N.O. but it is the Presidents fault for not fixing what the mayor is not doing. Bush is nowhere to be seen…
September 5th, 2005 at 9:15 am
Reason,
Well it should be like that but its not. Theres this thing called states rights. We fought a civil war over it and we’re still not sure who won. Bush may have the power to send troops to beat up Iraq, but no President since Lincoln has had that kind of balls to go up against our states. Even Kennedy had to keep up an appearance of getting Wallaces permission to send troops to Alabama to help quell riots in the 60’s. Privately, I am sure he threatened more than offered, but publicly… So nope, Bush may be a cowboy, but he ain’t John Wayne…or Abe Lincoln
September 5th, 2005 at 9:26 am
Don’t want to create a major debate here, but it has always been pretty clear as to who won the Civil War. I grew up in the separate but “unequal”
South and watched as “Ole Jim Crow” was used to keep “those people” in their place. Denese, you must have forgotten that Eisenhower sent federal troops into Little Rock, Arkansas, in 1958.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:28 am
Where is the plan? Here is the plan.
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf
Both the governor’s and the mayor’s responsibities are spelled out, including the responsibility of the mayor and the governor to mobilize ALL transportation resources to the evacuation task, which they apparently did not do, as well as numerous other duties.
The federal government has no evacuation responsibilities in the plan.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:40 am
A point of clarification:
In response to Georgia Peach, Mr. Reason stated earlier that Governor Blanco did not and still had not declared a state of emergency in Louisiana:
Quote: “There is a legal chain of command and legal procedures that have to be folllowed. The founding fathers gave the local, city, state gov’t powers to avoid the fed gov’t from over taking the smaller entities. Gov Blanco has not yet declared a state of emergency in LA. This means that the Fed gov’t does not have the legal authority to manage this disaster in LA. Both MISS and AL Govs declared SOE before the strom hit. Gov Blanco is still making hugh mistakes in regard to what is best for the people of LA.”
Mr. Reason, this is untrue.
There is a press release on the Office of the Governor’s website (http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=973) that indicates Governor Blanco declared a state of emergency on 8/26/05, three days before the hurricane stuck. I believe that indicates the federal government had the authority to manage the disaster in the state.
Here’s a snip:
Date: 8/26/2005
Contact:Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037
GOVERNOR BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY
BATON ROUGE, LA–Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco today issued Proclamation No. 48 KBB 2005, declaring a state of emergency for the state Louisiana as Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana The state of emergency extends from Friday, August 26, 2005, through Sunday, September 25, 2005, unless terminated sooner.
Your reasoned response, Mr. Reason?
September 5th, 2005 at 9:41 am
Yeah, I’d say Eisenhower had enough balls. Lots closer to John Wayne. But still bet he negotiated with the governor of ARK first, and got at least resignation if not permission.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:49 am
There is one thing and one thing alone that caused the destruction of New Orleans and the incredible human tragedy that has unfolded over that last week, and that is hurricane Katrina. No leader, at any level, made the decision to destroy the infrastructure and flood the city stranding thousands of people. Hurricane Katrina did that. I am disappointed that the American people have fallen so quickly into the frenzy of stone throwing and finger pointing. I am an active duty army officer with a decade of experience and as a leader of soldiers I can tell you that no matter how good your plan is, things WILL go wrong, the plan will go out the window, and as a result people may die. This is a fact of life. The true test comes in you ability to react, improvise, and overcome the adversity that the reality of the situation has dealt you. In this respect the leadership of New Orleans, Louisiana, and this nation have done an outstanding job and I doubt anyone else could have done better. The average American, myself included, cannot even fathom the complexity of leading the ongoing rescue operations. The Monday morning quarter- backs need to keep their mouths shut and thank God that they were not in the game on Sunday.
What has happened over the last week is horrible and if it were not for Katrina none of it would have happened. So for right now I wish we could all stop spitting in the faces of the leaders who are doing their best to continue to overcome the challenges that nature has given them. When the emergency is over and everything has been done that can be done, then it will be time to figure out what we could have done better and LEARN from this natural disaster without cutting off the heads of the people that ultimately lead the rescue of tens of thousands of people.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:56 am
cut the nonsense and see what can be done to help those affected people…
talk so much for what!
September 5th, 2005 at 9:58 am
To: tSOB
Where is the plan?
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.”
Here is the plan!
September 5th, 2005 at 9:59 am
Altough I appreciate all the political finger pointing, where were the busses, where was FEMA, where was the Guard, it still comes back to people making choices. I choose to live in SWFL, and with that choice comes the reality that we live in a Hurrican zone. So I choose to have a plan for my family. We lived thru 4 truly nasty storms, one after another, last year. “Charlie” Hit a part of florida that hadn’t seen a real storm since “Donna” in the 60’s. Maybe FL is more in your face about preparedness, but from May on you can’t watch an hour of T.V. with out being reminded to have a plan. Thats where it starts, with the individual, or family. If you know you live in a place pron to mudslides, or fires, or Noreasters, you have a plan. Black,White, Rich or Poor, you have a plan. Gov. Bush calls a state of emergancy if there is any possible threat, our county gov. opened shelters for “Dennis” and closed county offices and we weren’t even in the line of fire! The people of New Orleans, from the buss boy at Cafe’ Monde to the gov. of LA needed a plan. And if there was a plan there was very poor execution of that plan, and that comes on local gov. they have the direct line to their neighbors ear.
September 5th, 2005 at 10:11 am
The agrument is not who left the gate open, but who was the last one to see it wasn’t closed and walked on by without taking the time to secure it.
What is being said here calls to mind an incident I witnessed some years ago. I was walking down the sidewalk in my neighborhood and as I was approaching a nicely trimmed hedge, a rock came hurling out from behind one of the bushes and hit a passing car. I quickened my step and there standing in the bushes were three boys of around eight years of age. I faced them and demanded who had thrown the rock. Without hesitation, each pointed at the other and said: “He did!”
September 5th, 2005 at 10:15 am
Bill gives us the Preamble to the Constitution; I don’t get the point, because the Constitution doesn’t lay out responsibilities for the evacuation of southern Louisiana. The Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan is the document that does.
My point was that, despite the clear language in the plan, both state and local governments deviated from the plan. If they had adhered to the plan, many lives would have been saved.
In fact, it was President Bush that called the governor and the mayor and pleaded with them to perform their duty: http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana
September 5th, 2005 at 10:23 am
To: tSOB
You don’t get it? Try thinking outside the box. Be the guy who stops and shuts the gate before the horses all get out.
September 5th, 2005 at 10:34 am
Tim Russert on “Meet the Press”, quoted a statement by President Bush. Accorindg to Presnident Bush, he was “surprised” by the levee break and the flooding of New Orleans. Russert then proceeded to interview two authors of books that have been written. Those books discuss the potential catastrophie, one of them written 5 years ago.
I understand that President Bush does not like to read books, but why didn’t anyone in the administration inform him of this possibility. It seems to me that a potential “ultra-catastrophie” would be important to plan for. Isn’t that the job of the Homeland Security?
In addition, I heard the head of the Core of Engineers state that it is been a known fact that the levees were built to hold up to a Level 3 Hurricane. They knew the levees could be overwhlemed with a Catergory 4 or 5. The Core of Engineers has been trying to get funding to upgrade the levees for several years, but the upgrade “cost too much”. Now, we will all pay alot more for the uprgades.
Two main points that I want to make:
1- A local immigrant asked me why they were only showing African American’s on the news. I explained to him that was because they were the only ones stuck in New Orleans, because they did not have the means to get out of the city. The issues of race and class are a big part of the story. You can bet that Palm Beach, or New York would have had a faster reponse.
2- What are our priorities? My father’s generation left posterity the infrastructure of an interstate highway system. What is this generation leaving for posterity? The lack of longterm investments in the country’s infrastructure is coming home to roost. Where will the next New Orleans be?
September 5th, 2005 at 10:40 am
What Matt said is true. I am very glad I wasn’t in that game. But I was in a minor league game to continue your analagy, as I was in the path of the remnants as they came north…but my team had a game plan. Like shelters stocked with supplies and generators. Like constant broadcasts about likely emergencies we might experience and how to prepare for and cope with the aftermath. Churches were ready to open kitchens to serve hot meals. My home team had bottled water, sterno, flashlights, battery operated TV. I think our team was better prepared, and had we had to face as might an opponent as Katrina, I am afraid our team would have fared better. Their team dropped the ball too many times.
September 5th, 2005 at 10:48 am
I would like to add another point to my earlier post, which stated that Louisiana Governor Blanco declared a state of emergency three days before Katrina made landfall, giving the federal government the legal authority to manage the disaster in LA.
I have also learned that there is a Proactive Federal Response Protocal that is part of the National Response Plan that was accepted and implemented by the Bush Administration in December 2004. It states, in part:
“Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.”
You can find the NRP online at:
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf
I’m not sure what to make of the implementation of the evacuation plan by the Mayor and the Governor on Sunday, the 28th, as far as the use of school buses — but from the point the levees gave way on Tuesday, the 30th, this was the DHS’s responsibility, and it was grossly mismanaged by DHS Secretary Chertoff and Undersecretary Brown.
We should remember take a look to the east of NOLA, and see that the folks in Mississippi were also saying for three days, “Where is the help from the Federal Government?”
September 5th, 2005 at 11:09 am
In case you haven’t seen it, the Times-Picayune, Louisana’s largest newspaper, has printed an editorial today under the headline “An Open Letter to the President,” in which it said, “Every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency should be fired, Director Michael Brown especially.”
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/times.picayune.editorial/index.html
September 5th, 2005 at 12:02 pm
First,
Comparing the use of the National Guard at Central High with the use of them in NO is kind of an apples and oranges comparison. The situation with the 1957 Little Rock Central High crisis and the use of National Guard units is a bit more complicated than a simple matter of federalization of troops. Arkansas was a test case for the south. At a meeting of Southern Governors there was discussion of what would happen if a state resisted when, not if, school integration was required. Gov. Faubus was willing to see what would happen if he used the National Guard to keep the Little Rock Nine out of Central High. Faubus knew what was likely to happen, that the federal government would step in and force the issue, but he was interested in making political hay in his state, so he went ahead and did it. The National Guard were already in place at Central High when they were federalized. Their objective simply changed. The state of Arkansas attempted to stand against a federally ordered integration of its schools, that is what allowed for the federalization of troops, not the same thing as a natural disaster.
Second –
The governor asked the President to declare a state of emergency. That allows the governor to request federal assistance. It doesn’t allow the feds to simply come in and run roughshod over state and local governments. Even now the federal folks are very careful to use language explicitly giving responsibility to the state and local government for the disaster relief effort. Whether some wish to admit it or not, state’s rights are still an issue in this country, and state governments are very sensitive to federal involvement where states have primary responsibility. Only if cooperation and coordination completely breaksdown will the federal government go in and take over in such a situation. Political fallout can be costly.
Third –
Criminal negligence and courts of law? How about personal responsibility? This was a natural disaster. It wasn’t a secret that the levees weren’t up to a Cat 4 or 5 storm. Yes, the municipality and state could have handled the evacuation better, but there were still people who for a variety of reasons would not have left that city. Home or business owners who wanted to stay with their property, those too infirm to make it out, even people who didn’t want to leave pets behind, all of these folks have been interviewed in the last couple of days. And, if hospitals and nursing homes had been evacuated and the storm had tracked differently, and something had happened to any of the patients or clients, then hospitals, nursing homes, doctors, nurses and caregivers would have been libel. Sadly, we live in a litigious society that is all too ready to sue regardless of circumstance.
September 5th, 2005 at 12:05 pm
What if this was a social experiment?
Not by our elected officials, but by The System.
Yup, THE System.
The System that stays in control whether we elect the left or the right.
The System that would murder black, white, christian, or jew.
POWER
Or did you think the airplanes of 9/11 were only filled with “people of color”?
Social experiment or not, Bush shouldn’t be blamed for anything.
He has no real power.
The System makes the decisions, not elected officials.
Do you think that THE System would risk losing all their POWER to chance every four years on Election Day?
They’ve murdered way too many innocent people to let mindless “voters” ruin everything.
September 5th, 2005 at 1:31 pm
READ THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT OF 1878
ACLU SAYS :
Other courts have gone further to say that there are no limits on a state governor’s powers to use the National Guard “to execute the laws.” Further, courts have also said that all a governor has to do is to “generally authorize” use of the National Guard, leaving implementation and supervision up to local police. At least one state court has held that such an arrangement (almost by definition) does not violate a state constitutional requirement that the “military must at all times be subordinate to civil authority
ORLEANS LEVEE BOARD is responsible for all expenditures on the levee’s. Maybe they should show where all the money has gone since 1965 for repair and upkeep of the levee’s.Whatcha bet everything went way of the hurricane.
Wonder what its gonna cost to replace the busses that sit still and flooded when they could have been used and out of harms way. What an incompetant group of elected officials!
September 5th, 2005 at 2:24 pm
Yes folks it is true! After many years of drinking and snorting coke our president has succumbed to being a complete fool. Lets face it, your day- care director is probably a better leader! Bush has his head so far up the ass of Iraq he has forgot about our homeland. What a big surprise. Don’t worry, Osama is probably laughing his ass off. What a perfect chain of events for the terrorists! They gotta be lovin’ it! Keep up the shitty work Bush you are making us look great. Maybe you better quit and get a job at Dairy Queen. You make one hell of a blizzard.
September 5th, 2005 at 2:28 pm
This is way out of control.
I must agree that Bush is not up to American standards.
LETS ALL GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO THE RESCUE WORKERS THAT ARE GIVING IT THEIR ALL IN THE DISASTER AREA!
GREAT WORK!!
September 5th, 2005 at 4:01 pm
Our nation has the greatest transportation network in the world. It’s a shame that local, state and federal officials did not utilize buses to evacuate indigent citizens. May God forgive them all!!!
September 5th, 2005 at 4:54 pm
Just to make things clear. WE ARE ALL TO BLAME FOR THIS. Each and every one of us. Liberal, conservative, white, black. All of us who, over the years, in one way or another have been ignoring the urban poor. We consign them to the worst slums, in neighborhoods awash in guns and drugs. We flee to the suburbs instead of staying and making it better. We stay home on election day, cynically telling ourselves it won’t make a difference anyway. We score cheap political points with them, and turn our backs. We put price tags on their lives. We make it impossible to function in this society without a car. Nobody had an evacuation plan, and it’s oh, so convenient for everyone to point fingers at everyone else. Instead of blaming, let’s start doing something. Get out of suburbia. Take a walk in your downtown slums and take a good look around. Go to a food pantry, and ask “Could it happen here? “. Go to some kid there, and tell them why your honor student’s life is worth more than his. I am ashamed of myself as an American and as a human being. The generosity of people all over the country–and it is real generosity, nobody can deny that–pales in comparision to the stupendous negligence that led to this crisis.
Shame on all of us.
Never again.
September 5th, 2005 at 5:03 pm
Thanks TSOB for the link, after reading the entire plan, it is glaringly obvious where the problem originated. As has been pointed out correctly, the parrish leaders and the mayor did not implement the plan adequately and use the available resources (buses) to evacuate the citizens. In their plan they (the local parrishes, the city, and the state) clearly state that their would not be any food, water, etc. in the “Refuges of Last Resort” and they were only their to provide shelter from the storm. The question I have is what idiots would knowingly bring hundreds, even thousands of people to designated central locations, knowing they may be trapped there and not include at least providing water at the locations in your plan? Water doesn’t spoil, you put it away for the next emergency if it’s not needed. If you want to talk about criminal negligence, maybe you should start with the authors and signators of this document.
September 5th, 2005 at 8:38 pm
Why is the mayor now backing the police on nationl television? He refuses to note that not only are they commiting sucide while not acknowledging that several were shot and two policewomen were filmed looting clothes and shoes on camera? On Sunday he suggested that the police and firemen go to Las Vegas for R and R. Talk about covering some ass!!!!
September 5th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
Nagin should have used the busses. Blanco should have called out the National Guard. Bush should have been better prepared and quicker to respond. They all made mistakes. However, Bush is the one who receive almost all the blame for it. We live in a country where “historically disadvantaged people” are not held accountable for their actions. Blanco is a woman, but white. So she will be held somewhat accountable, but not to the fullest extent she likely should be. Nagin is black. Very few media outlets and/or politicians will criticize his response because it is political suicide to criticize black people in this country. Bush, who is deserving of his share of criticism, will likely receive all of it.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:49 pm
Mellie clarified what I have been saying all along. Everyone needs to get it through their heads…the federal government and especially the President are not Santa Claus. There is no magical remedy.
At his most powerful, all a President can do is attempt to allocate federal resources to whatever his particular long-term priorities are. But he has to get congressional authorization to do so. Bush can’t take his ATM card and go into the Treasury and move money to wherever he wants to spend it. Bush is accused of personally taking the money for flood control and spending it on Iraq. How silly and simplistic.
Biloxi had far greater damage than NO, even with the flooding, but loss of life there will be in the hundreds, not thousands. Why? Because local preparedness, response and utilization of resources began almost immediately. Officials in Biloxi immediately started work to co-ordinate relief and rescue. Shelters got opened, supplies got distributed, communications got worked out, and volunteers were allowed in to help. There were many people in Biloxi who were poor, black and had no way to get out. But they didn’t have to sit in Biloxi surrounded by their own excrement and garbage and die. Federal relief is arriving there in a trickle, because much has been diverted to NO.
What has made the difference? Mainly the local and state response, especially local.
The responsibility for local preparedness is local.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
I NEED YOUR HELP!!!!
I live in Tyler Texas and we have recieved around 5,000 victims of the hurrican most of which are kids they will be joining our school district and are in need of school supplies and clothing. If you can help please e-mail me at racheldear82@sbcglobal.net even if you can’t send anything if you could just pass it on it would help. And I want to say thank you to all the people who have already commited to help.
GOD BLESS
September 5th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
I want to agree with some of the main points from Jeff:
“I’m not sure what to make of the implementation of the evacuation plan by the Mayor and the Governor on Sunday, the 28th, as far as the use of school buses — but from the point the levees gave way on Tuesday, the 30th, this was the DHS’s responsibility, and it was grossly mismanaged by DHS Secretary Chertoff and Undersecretary Brown… We should remember take a look to the east of NOLA, and see that the folks in Mississippi were also saying for three days, “Where is the help from the Federal Government?”
I agree that a primary factor in the failure of a timely response to this tragedy, appears to be FEMA’s ineffectiveness and lack of leadership in its response. It appears that a primary problem was FEMA’s inability, or unwillingness, to act quickly.
Also, as others have pointed out, there have been occasions when the will and ability was there to move the National Guard into positions on a moments notice, but in this case, it took over 72 hours to get them into place.
Currently, we are seeing a massive PR and damage control effort by the Bush administration, including their, “being surprised”, needing time to organize the National Guard, and blaming the local and state authorities. As Jeff has so aptly pointed out, it is primarily the national government’s repsonsiblity to lead, when our country has a national catastrophie.
September 5th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
Look….The Hurricane turned and came with almost no notice! The Mayor declared a “MANDATORY EVACUATON” with very little leadway and the roads were Clogged with people.
No one expected there to be so many people left behind.
And if they would have been put on busses and died as a result of being trapped on the Interstates and Hiways …. You all would be complaining about THAT!!
I’m not saying the Mayor or the Governor OR the President don’t deserve to be blamed….Hell all the mayors, governors and presidents of the last 30 years could bear resposiblity…
But use the questions you have of what happened to help prevent it from happening again…..
September 5th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
The school busses weren’t used because there was no one to drive them. All of the school district bus drivers have families of their own that they needed to take care of and get out, not drive other families out. I dont expect the everyday bus driver to be capable of leaving his or her family to fend for themselves while they are off trying to be heroes.
September 5th, 2005 at 11:19 pm
Melvor,
No notice? It was in the Gulf for more than 3 full days (with the NO as the expected landfall) but you’re right, the mandatory evacuation was declared with very little headway. What you fail to realize is that local officials knew the evacuation would take a significant amount of time, and did nothing until the last minute. Now they are (as is everyone) Monday morning quarterbacking because it’s still taking too long. They KNEW and expected-read the US News and World report article from two months ago-that there would be people left behind, and they chose to hold back any help of getting out beforehand. Then again, people are still refusing to leave. The governor is acting like a three year old who wants control over everything, except that she wants everyone else to be doing the work and be accountable without control. She still refuses to allow the feds the authorities they need, because she wouldn’t be in control. All the politicians need to quit having a pi**ing contest, pointing fingers, sticking their tongues out at each other and work together.
We are all Americans and that should be all that matters. I am so disheartened- yes, at the local state and federal folks who dropped the ball and now still can’t even begin to play nice and acknowledge the help they have received with gratitude and a sense of teamwork. I am more disheartened at my fellow Americans who can’t seem to realize that, first and foremost, all we have is each other-and the hatefulness and venom that echoes in these posts is more destructive in the longterm than anything Mother Nature and the ’system’ could possibly throw at us.
September 5th, 2005 at 11:19 pm
At least other cities are drawing up the plans New Orleans lacked, FEMA has been trying for years to get out Homeland security, maybe this is why.
September 5th, 2005 at 11:22 pm
Is it wrong to dislike those that don’t do a good job? citizen to local gov. to federal gov.
September 5th, 2005 at 11:27 pm
mkjblogman,
That’s why an emergency plan makes certain that there are drivers available. It wouldn’t matter if the national Guard of the state drive the buses. Part of the plan is to KNOW who will drive the buses. When you are a state, local or municipal employee, you should be aware that you may be called on by the authority who pays your salary to’drive’ a bus ot whatever. Just because you personally wouldn’t expect it, it IS a part of the job. All throughout the country, public service employees have been called away their families in hurricanes, blizzards, earthquakes, floods and all sorts of disasters to perform their duties. I’ll bet some of those bus drivers and their families would have gladly left the area if the opportunity was given to them before the storm. By the way, more than one evacuee managed to borrow and drive those buses out of state as well.
September 5th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
Denese,
Yes, what you say is silly and simplistic. Lighten up on the hard stuff and possibly the haze will begin to clear up in a few weeks. Those who live in trailer houses shouldn’t tempt the weather god.
September 5th, 2005 at 11:36 pm
Ezra,
Dislike is one thing. Criticism (especially the constructive kind) is what made this country great. Hatred and venom is another, and I can’t imagine who it or how it really helps. I may be completely wrong there, but I can’t see how it helps. Was it you who said that you can call your friend an a**, you can call his actions a**inine, but in the end he’s still your friend. We all have more than one chance to vote every year to voice our likes and dislikes. I’d always believed that most of us, when you got right down to it, had more in common that we had differences. The intolerance for differing opinions I’ve seen across the net doesn’t exactly give me a whole lot of hope. We need to help each other get though this, and intolerance is not the way to succeed.
September 5th, 2005 at 11:59 pm
Amen, MissD.
September 6th, 2005 at 12:13 am
If anyone ever looked deeper, they would know that FEMA was folded into the Department of Homeland Security and now has to march to THAT drumbeat. FEMA was asked for help, but the request was admittedly sent to DHS for a committee to “review.” If you go to the DHS home page (unless the page is “under construction” now), it specifically states that THEY have sole authority in case of natural disasters.
Local authorities, once they declared the emergency, found that they were NO LONGER ALLOWED to act without federal permission. Ever step taken has to be reviewed and signed off on before the local people can do anything.
The “aid” that Bush initially offered Blanco included a requirement that she turn the state over to total federal control before the aid was granted. In other words, it would have been martial law with all the guns and forcible movements you could ever desire. Local leaders would no longer have ANY authority over the police, evacuations, shelters, food distribution, etc..
I notice that there have been few mentions of how quickly FEMA gets to Florida after a hurricane. Could it be because of the family relationship?
September 6th, 2005 at 12:26 am
Not amazed,
Trust those of us who actually live in Florida-FEMA does NOT get here in less than three to four days. That could be why you don’t hear how quickly they respond. Then again, you don’t hear all the blaming or see the fingerpointing because our state and local authorities know that they are responsible for the pre-hurricane PREPAREDNESS and the first few days after landfall. Those of us who choose to live here know what our sheleter options are, know that our locals have plans and have seen them work-sometimes wonderfully, sometimes more slowly than makes us happy. We all have to take some personal responsibility and plan as well. In the end, it is a risk you take when you live in a hurricane prone area. The feds treat those of us us here in the Sunshine State no better and no worse than anyone else.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:21 am
NotAmazed
There were no conditions attached to the federal aid provided to Louisiana. The feds requested command and control of the disaster relief efforts in an attempt to centralize that control. Given how ill-prepared Louisiana officials were to deal with the aftermath of Katrina for the few days it takes to get federal aid rolling, that isn’t really surprising. Of course, Ms. Blanco refused the request. This way she gets to retain control of the efforts without actually taking responsibility for them. A good political move all the way around.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:34 am
Miss D,
You are so right. I have been reading your comments on several of these boards and your comments are all thoughtful and thought provoking. At least to me.
Americans need to look at what we have done to our country in the last 40 years…not just the last 4. We have consistantly dismantled local efforts in every area of infrastructure, preparedness, education and response, and centralized it all under FEMA, HOMELAND SECURITY AND ON AND ON. So that we must stand back and wait for relief to come to us through layers and layers of red tape and bureacracy. And guess what? Those same bureacrats will be in place for the next event, wherever it takes place, still reluctant to make any decisions, still shuffling blame and responsibility, and still living by their creed..cover your ass.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:40 am
Is that what Miss D has been sayin?
September 6th, 2005 at 1:45 am
Ezra,
No. Its what I am saying. Go talk to your grandfather about the Civilian Defense Corps, and what would have happened if they had been available. And find out what happened to them and other organizations like them.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:49 am
Ezra,
Give me a break. I agreed with your GTA theory!
September 6th, 2005 at 1:53 am
Denese,
Thanks. You’ve opened my eyes a bit as well.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:53 am
What about the possibility of using the railways as an alt. method to evacuate residents of devastated area like New Orleans. A couple hundred empty box cars would have moved lots of people north, or west, out of harms way to a safe area where they could be put on buses and transported other areas. I do not know the area, Just a thought…
September 6th, 2005 at 2:18 am
Boxcars occured to me, also, but there are some problems. I believe the problems could be overcome with planning and rehearsal, but if Louisiana’s leaders could follow a plan, we might not be having this discussion.
Problem 1: Railroad traffic is managed fairly tightly. You wouldn’t want your evacuation plan to rely on other train traffic getting out of the way.
Problem 2: People might be offended at the undignified prospect of being herded into cargo boxes. Smacks of the holocost and possibly slave trade.
Problem 3: Boxcars just aren’t made for people. Supplies, comfort facilities wouldn’t be available for a long time. It might be as bad as the Superdome terror, but on the move.
September 6th, 2005 at 3:20 am
Maybe we can learn a lesson from China. I don’t know if you guys are aware of this, but China was recently struck by a pretty severe typhoon:
NEARLY 600,000 people were evacuated as Typhoon Talim ploughed into southern China yesterday, packing winds of up to 114mph.
That’s right, 600,000. In one day. How come we couldn’t do that?
September 6th, 2005 at 3:28 am
Well all that is fine and dandy ya’ll, BUT we houstonions are the ones that are getting screwed. We have the majority of the refugee’s here in houston getting unemployement when they werent even
working,food stamps, when all there meals and needs are being taken care of and what are these transplanted looters, rapist, gun toting thugs doing—-the same thing they were doing in La. Living off the government as they have from generation to generation. they are fanning out all over the city. Crime is already up, up ,up. The police are already saying to the native houston people to drive with your doors locked, windows up, dont roll them down for anyone. Lock your doors when getting gas, stay out of downtown if possible.
There was no police at the dome when all these people were getting of the buses so there armed and dangerous.There already bitchin cuz the food is not good enough, there are no TV’s, I say if you dont like it leave Texas. I dont really care who’s fault it is or what if this or what if that, I’m worried about safety
September 6th, 2005 at 3:33 am
Gabe,
Perhaps because they followed evacuation orders and got out on their own before the storm hit? Several hundred thousand people evacuated NO in one day too–Sunday, when they were told to do so. Therefore, i would say we COULD and DID do that.
September 6th, 2005 at 3:42 am
They killed a man here last night,” Steve Banka, 28, told Reuters. “A young lady was being raped and stabbed. And the sounds of her screaming got to this man and so he ran out into the street to get help from troops
Wade Batiste, 48, recounted another tale of horror.
The young man’s body lay in the street by the Convention Center’s entrance on Saturday morning, covered in a black blanket, a stream of congealed blood staining the street around him. Nearby his family sat in shock.
“There is rapes going on here. Women cannot go to the bathroom without men. They are raping them and slitting their throats. .
The Louisiana National Guard soldier said,
“We found a young girl raped and killed in the bathroom,” one National Guard soldier told Reuters. “Then the crowd got the man and they beat him to death.”
These are the people in the Houston Astrodome, George R. Brown convention center and Relient Arena.
Why dont yall comment on this stuff a bit
September 6th, 2005 at 3:58 am
Because, Tom, that’s not the topic. But not to worry. The President today declared Texas a disaster area, in order to qualify Texas for federal disaster relief. Your expenses will be covered, although not even Washington can replenish your empty soul.
September 6th, 2005 at 4:47 am
Tom I totally agree…if you don’t like it, leave! I’m in San Antonio and we’ve got a lot of people here also. Some friends and I went out on Friday night to the Riverwalk and the cops stopped us and asked if we had a male to take us to where we were going.. (there were 5 of us-all women). We said no, so he told us that he would find another cop to take us to where we were going. We were all like ,what’s going on? He said that crime has been up since last week and there’s been a lot of rapes reported downtown. We went home after that. Its just sad.
Also, I keep hearing about the Astrodome needing more volunteers to help pass out supplies. Um….hello? Didn’t the Astrodome just get filled to the brim with people who have nothing to do but lay around all day? Why can’t they help themselves out? We’ve already bussed them to Texas on our dime, so do they expect us to wait on them hand and foot? I say they need to get off their butts and do something for themselves for a change!
September 6th, 2005 at 5:25 am
In China they were able to evacuate more people in one day, IMMEDIATELY after the typhoon hit, than we have evacuated in ONE WEEK.
This is a systemic failure.
September 6th, 2005 at 5:45 am
Please check those facts again. I found that the story on CNN. com stated that they HAD been evacuated AS the storm plowed in–that certainly sounds af it was before and not after.
I’d also guess that they didn’t have 10,000 people still defying police orders to leave after the storm hit. Of course, Mayor Nagin does have a plan for those who choose not to leave now.
Directly from AP:
‘Mayor Ray Nagin said that authorities were going to try to persuade people to leave. Officers will no longer be handing out water to people who will not evacuate, the mayor said.’
Talk about systemic failure.
September 6th, 2005 at 6:21 am
yep, bottom line——–how many white gangs are shooting and looting harding workiing people——————lets get real——–Bush is incompent and the niggers are the rest of the problem……sorry. GET REAL
September 6th, 2005 at 6:24 am
OH YES, SOMETIMES IM SO WRAPPED UP IN WHAT IM WRITING MY SPELLING AND GRAMMER SUCKS———–IS THERE A CHECK FOR THAT??????????????????
September 6th, 2005 at 6:30 am
No matter what happened with Nagin and Blanco, Bush needed to step up to the plate. Because Bush doesn’t like democrats, thousands of children and elderly deserve to die of thirst or lack of medication? The dispassion of many Americans is truy disheartening. Bush went to McCain’s birthday party, played guitar in San Diego, and made the worst speech ever according to the NYT. This was not a test whereby your paper is returned, corrected and re-submitted.
This is the jist of what you will find on the Homeland Security website.
In times of catastrophe when local and state resources are overwhelmed - the feds are to step in immediately.
First order of business: save lives and protect infrastructure.
The protocol of coordinating with state and local governments should not delay the deployment of federal resources.
September 6th, 2005 at 6:37 am
Hey, I’m not letting Nagin or Blanco off the hook either here. Our city governments have become cesspools of corruption, local politicians prey on the fear of suburbanites, and the poor get shafted. Just enough public transportation to keep the working poor working.
And I’m sick and tired of how people continue to bankrupt government to the point where it’s incapable of responding to crises like this, and turn around and say “See? Look how incompetent our government is. Let’s starve the beast”.
Spearking of Grover-starve-the-beast-Norquist, remember how he talked about shrinking the size of government until he could DROWN the baby in the bathwater? I guess he must be happy now that NOLA is drowning–literally.
September 6th, 2005 at 8:07 am
Just Be thankfull Your Damn House Did’nt get destroyed.
September 6th, 2005 at 8:30 am
Come on people get it right.The Federal government offered a declaration to Blanco Friday night where as the government would take the lead IT WAS REFUSED
September 6th, 2005 at 8:51 am
‘Homeland security will protect us from Biological warfare, nuclear attack, chemical warfare, and terrorism, but not standing water!”
September 6th, 2005 at 9:24 am
Ezra, Hypothetically, let’s say that in some alternate universe you are in charge of the situation in New Orleans start to finish. How do you fix it? Step by step, please. I enjoy alternative views, but criticism without some possible solution isn’t very productive.
September 6th, 2005 at 9:37 am
Look here, When Hurrincane Dennis came throught in Alabama, Baldwin County put people on buses and took them to Birmingham Ala. No brainer who fault here is on getting people out of The Big Easy. The Big Stupid Mayor!
September 6th, 2005 at 10:39 am
ummm, im doing a research about this hurricane, and found out that the mayor was responsible for not using the school buses to transport the people of new orleans out of the area. He simply said “the bus drivers need special or good driver license that able them to drive a bus filled with 50 to 80 ppl or more.” maybe its the law, or maybe its his fault.
u ppl shouldnt blame each other, since everybody makes a fuking bad move sometimes, but it was a natural disaster. i mean, what could ppl do against the mother nature?
September 6th, 2005 at 10:46 am
# Gabe Says:
September 6th, 2005 at 5:25 am
In China they were able to evacuate more people in one day, IMMEDIATELY after the typhoon hit, than we have evacuated in ONE WEEK.
This is a systemic failure.
oh yeah, gabe is definitely right. this proves how the americans are not prepared against the natural disaster, or the chinese are a litte bit smarter than us. no wonder mai chinese friends are too smart~
September 6th, 2005 at 12:14 pm
Joan, but see they sent in aid before and after that offer. They didn’t need any kind of formal request, papers, agreements. Blanco declared a state of emergency befoer Katrina hit. It was a political ploy by Bush to be able to take over and blame everthing on the state and local governments.
September 6th, 2005 at 7:42 pm
Before everyone starts pointing fingers and blaming federal government, let’s take a look at where the responsibility should be.
1. You have the responsiblity for taking care of yourself, that means evacuating and having necessary supplies: food, water, clothing for at least 3-5 days.
2. The local government has the responsiblity to ensure those who can’t evacuate, have the necessary transportation to get them out of harms way. They also have the responsiblity for providing food, water, shelter and security for those in shelters. The local gov’t is also responsible for having a viable evacuation plan in case of emergency.
3. The state gov’t has the responsibility to assist the local government, if called upon, to provide shelter, security, food, water, troops.
4. The federal government, if called on, should assist the local and state government with :evacuation, food, water, shelter, troops, medicines, etc
It starts with you, then the local government, state government and lastly the federal government. So quit blaming the federal government. Do people not realize that to call in the national guard they have 72 hrs to report to the armory, additional time of 1-2 days to pcms vehicles, equipment, and load supplies and even more time to get to the devastated areas. Duh, that’s why they say have a minimum of 3-5 days supplies.
September 6th, 2005 at 8:56 pm
Dave,
You are so very right, but few people want to hear that truth–especially the part about preparedness being a personal responsibility and beginning with each of us. It’s so much easier to place blame than to be accountable.
September 6th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
Everyone should read this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/opinion/06tierney.html
An excerpt:
We can learn more by listening to men like Jim Judkins, particularly when he explains the Magic Marker method of disaster preparedness.
Mr. Judkins is one of the officials in charge of evacuating the Hampton Roads region around Newport News, Va. These coastal communities, unlike New Orleans, are not below sea level, but they’re much better prepared for a hurricane. Officials have plans to run school buses and borrow other buses to evacuate those without cars, and they keep registries of the people who need special help.
Instead of relying on a “Good Samaritan” policy - the fantasy in New Orleans that everyone would take care of the neighbors - the Virginia rescue workers go door to door. If people resist the plea to leave, Mr. Judkins told The Daily Press in Newport News, rescue workers give them Magic Markers and ask them to write their Social Security numbers on their body parts so they can be identified.
“It’s cold, but it’s effective,” Mr. Judkins explained.
That simple strategy could have persuaded hundreds of people to save their own lives in New Orleans. What the city needed most was coldly effective local leaders, not a president in Washington who could feel their pain. It’s the same lesson we should have learned from Sept. 11 and other disasters, yet both liberals and conservatives keep ignoring it.”
September 6th, 2005 at 10:10 pm
Yeah, I read the Tierney Op. It made me think that the first criticisms I heard of the evacuation effort came only after folks started screaming about the ineptitude of FEMA and the federal response. As the mandatory evacuation was proceeding, so far as I know no, one was complaining about the way the that the locals were handling it, nor did anyone start pointing fingers at the city/state until the mayor and the reporters in the city had been yelling and crying that no help was coming from the feds.
All I can say is that Karl Rove earns every dollar he makes.
September 6th, 2005 at 10:11 pm
Amen, Denese.
A similar ‘method’ has been used quite often by local officials (including ours) here in FL. Those who refuse to heed mandatory evac orders are advised to put both their own names and the contact info of their next of kin on their arms in permanent marker. It may seem cold and cruel, but perhaps it could have swayed ONE person who stayed behind because ‘nobody believed it would really be that bad’. It would have been worth risking being thought cold and cruel if–in the end–even one additional life was spared.
September 6th, 2005 at 10:20 pm
I’m sure we’re all happy to read that the President will oversee an investigation into what went wrong.
It’s deja vu all over again.
Does anyone have a fox? I need one to watch my henhouse.
September 6th, 2005 at 11:14 pm
I want those guys who in are in charge of Hampton Roads preparedness to come to the Gulf Coast, now, please? Supervisors please give them paid leave . And from other cities like them.These are the guys with the training and initiative to be on the frontlines problem solving. My own area, near Birmingham seeemed to do a pretty good job preparing, But other than widespread power outages and school closings, had we had damage one the scale of NO, I m not sure we wouldn’t have had nearly as much violence, looting etc. Because I am not sure how prepared our law enforcement is. And The magic City surely has big problems with poverty, racial strife and lawlessness, particularly drugs.But so does every place that has those “Hot nights in the City.” If you live near one of those cities, NY, Chic, LA what would have it been like there if it had been you? Lay off NO re. looting, racism, etc. Remember the last blackout you had? Throw a few feet of filthy water into the mix. Then blow 145m/hr winds. Lay off the “off with their heads, mentality” and lets put our collective manpower towards getting this fixed, today and tomorrow and 10 yers from now.
September 7th, 2005 at 12:44 am
(Sing along to the tune of Beverly Hillbillies)
Come and listen to my story ’bout a boy named Bush.
His IQ was zero and his head was up his tush.
He drank like a fish while he drove all about.
But that didn’t matter ‘cuz his daddy bailed him out.
DUI, that is.
Criminal record.
Cover-up.
Well, the first thing you know little Georgie goes to Yale.
He can’t spell his name but they never let him fail.
He spends all his time hangin’ out with student folk.
And that’s when he learns how to snort a line of coke.
Blow, that is.
White gold.
Nose candy.
The next thing you know there’s a war in Vietnam.
Kin folks say, “George, stay at home with Mom.”
Let the common people get maimed and scarred.
We’ll buy you a spot in the Texas Air Guard.
Cushy, that is.
Country clubs.
Nose candy.
Twenty years later George gets a little bored.
He trades in the booze, says that Jesus is his Lord.
He said, “Now the White House is the place I wanna be.”
So he called his daddy’s friends and they called the GOP.
Gun owners, that is.
Falwell.
Jesse Helms.
Come November 7, the election ran late.
Kin folks said “Jeb, give the boy your state!”
“Don’t let those colored folks get into the polls.”
So they put up barricades so they couldn’t punch their holes.
Chads, that is.
Duval County.
Miami-Dade.
Before the votes were counted five Supremes stepped in.
Told all the voters “Hey, we want George to win.”
“Stop counting votes!” was their solemn invocation.
And that’s how George finally got his coronation.
Rigged, that is.
Illegitimate.
No moral authority.
Y’all come vote now.
Ya hear?
September 7th, 2005 at 4:17 am
They probaly didn’t use the buses because they didn’t want to waste any money if the buses got damaged. Also the bus might tip over or it might break down and then they would be helpless.
September 7th, 2005 at 5:16 am
i bet they find a way to get all those people out to the polls to vote. they used them to get out the vote
September 7th, 2005 at 8:25 am
i dont think that its anybodies fault except the people that had a means to get out and didnt utilize it. there wouldnt be nearly as many people to rescue if not for them
September 7th, 2005 at 7:24 pm
the people who wanted to stay is there own business not anyone else they made their choose so they can live with it. What is the deal blaming people if they spent more time focusing on the problem then they could help things move alot more faster than complaining all the time….
September 7th, 2005 at 9:12 pm
Living in a coastal area of Florida I know all to well the importance of preparedness in the event of a hurricane. It is hammered into our heads all year and especially during hurricane season. It is OUR responsibility to be prepared, have 3-5 days worth of food, and know all shelter areas and evacuation information. It is our personal responsibility to head any warnings. So I have to wonder, as the Mayor is pointing his finger to the federal government, did his local government not provide this same information to the good people of New Orleans? The city was warned that a Category 5 hurricane was heading their way. You wouldn’t have had to tell me twice!! Did the mayor utilize all his resources in assisting the citizens of this city? Apparently not, when we can see the hundreds of school buses parked and flooded. It is the responsibility of the local and state government to FIRST assist, then the federal government when called upon. Instead of pointing fingers the mayor should look at where his Emergency Management Plan went wrong and resolve the issues in the event this were ever to happen again. I believe people are always willing to follow a good LEADER, providing he/she is leading. My heart and prayers go out to all the survivors, victims, and families that have been affected by this hurricane, you WILL prevail!!!
September 7th, 2005 at 10:22 pm
EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:
LAW ENFORCEMENT:
I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol.
I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver’s license suspended for 30 days.
My Texas driving record has been “lost” and is not available.
MILITARY:
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use.
By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.
COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.
I was a cheerleader.
PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran or U.S. Congress and lost.
I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975.
I bought an oil company, but couldn’t find any oil in Texas.
The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.
With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:
I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.
I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.
With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father’s appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.
I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.
In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.
I’m proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My “poorest millionaire,” Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.
I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.
My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron.
My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.
I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution.
More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.
I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.
I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.
I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.
I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.
I’ve broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. “prisoners of war” detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.
I set the the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.
After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.
I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families — in wartime.
In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends.
I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I am supporting development of a nuclear “Tactical bunker Buster,” a WMD.
I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden.
RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father’s library, sealed and unavailable for public view.
All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
September 7th, 2005 at 11:15 pm
AMERICANS VOTE!!!
instead of BITCHING after Vote the RIGHT person into office
September 7th, 2005 at 11:27 pm
wow! what credentials, its no wonder he won re election. he certainly deserves our utmost respect and admiration. he can spend his political capital with our blessings. hail to the thief!
September 7th, 2005 at 11:57 pm
Hey PresidentPigVomit what exactly does your ratting have to do with why the school buses weren’t used to evacuate the residents of N.O. before Katrina hit?? Just curious??
September 8th, 2005 at 12:48 am
the wages of sin is death! like it or not, i dont make the rules i just live by them
September 8th, 2005 at 2:06 am
The hundreds of school buses could have been used. I dont see why they were used. They’re just floating in the sewage water.
September 8th, 2005 at 2:16 am
When you are the mayor or governor it is your responsibility to make sure that you have anything and everything that you need, especially when you KNOW that something is going to happen (ie., a category 4+ hurricane)! You have the National Guard, Red Cross ,even the Canadian Mounties if you need them,
on alert, waiting for you to give the go ahead. People can say whatever they want, play whatever blame game they want, the bottom line is that the governor and mayor(s) dropped the ball. If you have people that need to be evacuated and they do not have their own resources, you use city and state resources, such as school buses. I live in Texas and I am seeing so many Louisiana license plates and all hotels are full. I heard that people (not sure if National Guard, local or who) were confiscating chartered buses to take evacuees away from NO and surrounding parishes. Why take someone else’s property when you have your own sitting in a bus yard? I know school buses are hot during the summer, I rode one to school. I’m sure the Superdome was hot though especially with no AC. I’d rather ride a hot school bus than die!
September 8th, 2005 at 3:29 am
yep*, bottom line——–how many white gangs are shooting and looting harding* workiing* people——————lets get real——–Bush is incompent* and the niggers are the rest of the problem……sorry. GET REAL
With all the spelling errors and run on sentences I see, looks like your the NIGGER- A stupid ignorant person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 8th, 2005 at 3:32 am
THAT WAS FOR MS. SUZY. YOU SHOULDN’T USE WORDS YOU CAN’T SPELL, AND IF YOU CAN’T SPELL THEM, I KNOW DAMN WELL YOU DON’T KNOW THEIR MEANING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 8th, 2005 at 4:07 am
Black comes in all different shades, that’s the beauty of the race. Black isn’t such a bad thing when your laying your pale asses in the sun trying to get BLACK. For the REDNECKS TAN is a shade of BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 8th, 2005 at 9:06 am
After hearing so many people in the administration stating their talking point “we don’t want to play the blame game”, I heard Secretary Chertoff state a primary reason for the catastrophe was because the city of New Orleans was built in a “soup bowl”.
I get it now, we can blame the city of New Orleans for being built! I’m sure that makes the tens of thousands of people who had to wait for several days to get any food or water feel much better now.
September 8th, 2005 at 10:54 pm
i can’t beleive how stupid some people are i mean some people who did have cars were probably thinking it was there own fault that they don’t have a car but even if they had a car it they would have more likely to get washed away then if they were in bus. all i’m saying is why couldn’t any one use common sense?
September 9th, 2005 at 2:11 am
When everything is all said and done the only ones to blame are the politicians thta cry for help when help is at there fingertips. It’s a shame that people belive thta this was a racial issue when all it was, was a simple excuse of not having the testicuar fortitude to gab the bulls by the horns and steer people clean of danger. Shame on the govermnet of LA and the local politicians for not stepping up to the plate to help the people in there own cities! Such a waste of human life,
September 10th, 2005 at 5:12 am
after 4 years and millions of tax payer dollars to prepair for a disaster, natural, or man made, the leadership of N.O. not only failed miserably, they ran out of N.O. and tried to manage the disaster from Baton Rouge.
Is everyone aware that IES corp. developed a comprehensive disaster response plan in 2004, at a cost of half a million dollars? And that the Clinton era fema director is the head of IES?
My questions are 1) what was all that federal money spent on? and 2) why are the mayor of N.O. and the gov. of LA. not being indited for fraud and theft of federal funds?
September 10th, 2005 at 5:43 am
Well to me you some of you are pointing fingers also, what are you doing to make the situtation better. Yes the mayor and the govenor should have done things differently. But the government also dragged it’s feet in this also. Check out this example–you are at the beach with your children one 2 years of age and one 14 years of age. Your two year goes into the water with out you able to see hime do so. Your 14 year old is out in the water trying to save your 2 year old. Do you wait (drag your feet as the government did) for your 14 year to save you 2 year old or do you step in immediately and save you 2 year old yourself.
It’s strange how the tsunami victims were not prepared for their natural disaster and the US Government helped them immediately. Katrina was a natural disaster the devasted communites on American soil and Americans were not helped immediately.
I will be honest I do not know Bush personally but I will say I do not agree with his tactics. This country is going downhill. I can get into other things but I know how to stick to the subject.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:51 am
To Dutchman -
I too thought that the Mayor left New Orleans for Baton Rouge, but that is not correct. According to the Sunday, September 4, Orlando Sentinel (page A24), he remained in the city throughout the tragedy. He received criticism from some, for not leaving, because his communications were hampered. He requested assistance every day and was given promises that help was on the way, it only took four to five days for the help to arrive. It is my understanding that the 82nd Airborne could have been there in 5 hours.
September 11th, 2005 at 5:43 am
yeah good question why did’nt they use the school buses but im sure it better be a reson for that shit i know it is i just hav’nt did resarch on that part yet but i did resarch about everything else bout katrina i needa do more!!!
September 11th, 2005 at 6:04 am
THEY DIDNT USE THEM because Pres Bush was having a roman orgy with a bunch of pigmes. It was a hell of a party.
September 11th, 2005 at 7:19 am
Well to evryone that wants to stick it to MY PRESIDENT> I ask you WHO LET THE DOGS OUT? WHY BE SO DOGMATIC? I ASK YOU WHO HOLDS THE KEY TO THE CITY? WHY SHOULD MY PRESIDENT HAVE TO RUN YOUR CITIES…..NO HE DOES NOT- REMEMBER THERE IS A CHAIN OF COMMAND. YES HE CARES FOR ALL PEOPLE…GET OFF OF THE RACE CARD ISSUE…OR YOU MIGHT FIND YOURSELF IN A LITTLE HOTTER SITUATION! IF HE DID NOT CARE FOR ALL PEOPLE I GUESS WE WOULD NOT BE IN IRAC FIGHTING THAT WAR. BELIEVE IT OR NOT THOSE SOILDERS WANT TO KEEP US FREE! GUESS YOU ALL DON’T OR YOU’D BE A VOLUNTEER INSTEAD OF HANGING OUT ON THE E-NET FINDING FAULT AND FINDING BLAME….LISTEN, I DON’T CARE WHAT COLOR PEOPLE ARE GET YOUR BUTT OUT THERE AND HELP SOMEONE TODAY AND YOU WON’T BE SO CRITICAL…JUST HELP FOR GOD SAKE…STAND UP, GET RID OF A JELLY BACKBONE AND GO TO WORK…PHYSICALLY OR FINANCIALLY HELP SOMEONE IN NEED, INSTEAD OF KICKING EVERYONE DOWN. NAGIN AND BLANCO REALLY MISSED THEIR MARK AND SHOULD ALSO BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE BECAUSE NEITHER SEEM TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO ORGANIZE OR LEAD THE PEOPLE….BUT GET OFF OF IT AND SAY SELF? WHAT CAN I DO TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE? “TIRED OF HEARING THIS CRAP MYSELF…..ON EVERY TV STATION YOU SEE “HOW MANY CARS AND TRUCKS FLOATING? WHO DID THE BELONG TO….? AND IF LA HAS SO MANY POOR PEOLE WHY? PARTYING TOWNS RAISE LOTS OF MONEY! GET OVER IT AND GET REAL PEOPLE!!!! LET “YOUR” ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN YOUR MOUTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 11th, 2005 at 4:47 pm
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
September 11th, 2005 at 5:35 pm
As you read the word of JESUS from the book of Mat…consider this a warning.Start now making plans for the return of The KING …Prepare for it to get worce as sin increase in our world.This is the big picture..Bush are no other political leader can stop storms from raging….This is prophesy and there is no defence but prayer!!!!!!
September 12th, 2005 at 4:14 am
it is not bushes fault is the peoples fault they could have worked together and evacuated but no they didnt!!!!
September 12th, 2005 at 1:46 pm
I don’t care if the looters were mexicans, african, asian, or what race you are. It was a flat out DISGRACE to see that AMERICANS would act like that. I can see looting and stealing for food, medicine or clothing for my family or the hungry(needy). But, a 27in flat screen TV, guns, on CNN live. What the hell are you going to do with electronics if they are wet and rusted and NO power for atleast 1mnth.
The Govenor of LA and the Mayor of New Orleans were told about the levy in 2000. It would not hold a C-4 or 5 hurricane. They did nothing. Instead spending money on a dieing city. New Orleans has been spending 3 times as much as it takes in for the past 11yrs. Why couldn’t the mayor of New Orleans use the 517 school buses to get the people out. The LA and New Orleans Government were informed on Thursday at 1:12pm that it would be a C-4 or C-5. They need to begin evacutation immediatley. No instead they relied on the Federal Government to handle it. They said it was not there concern. I bet they got there ASS out before KATRINA hit. Then when Katrina hit, they cry about all the people dead and stranded and make it into a race issue.
September 12th, 2005 at 6:22 pm
I know exactly why the school busses weren’t used because you have a dumd ass in the office, they waited until the last minute then the damn busses couldn’t be used, because of the flood. I bet the next time you’ll pay attention to the warning signs. For one time and one time only, (I can’t beleive I’m saying This) Bush is not the blame!
Better luch next time
September 12th, 2005 at 6:24 pm
I know exactly why the school busses weren’t used because you have a dumd ass in the office, they waited until the last minute then the damn busses couldn’t be used, because of the flood. I bet the next time you’ll pay attention to the warning signs. For one time and one time only, (I can’t beleive I’m saying This) Bush is not the blame!
Better luck next time
September 12th, 2005 at 11:36 pm
buses cant move with out drivers. DUH!!!!!! but ofcourse you brilliant ones here thought of that. the mayor must have had drivers lined up for miles and refused their help, that must be it.
September 14th, 2005 at 2:50 am
The heat wave in July 1995 in Chicago was one of the worst weather-related disasters in Illinois history with approximately 525 deaths over a 5-day period. As noted by Changnon et al. (1996), “The loss of human life in hot spells in summer exceeds that caused by all other weather events in the United States combined, including lightning, rainstorms/floods, hurricanes, and tornadoes.” Weather hazards such as tornadoes, floods, lightning, and winter storms each result in about 100 deaths per year on average, while heat waves result in about 1000 deaths per year on average.
Why was the July 1995 event so severe?
Here are the records for Chicago at Midway airport:
——————————————————————————–
STATION: CHICAGO_MIDWAY_AP_3_SW, IL (Station ID: 111577)
Precip- || Snow Snow
itation High Low Mean Degree Fall Depth Observe
Year Mo Dy (in) (F) (F) (F) Days (in) (in) Time Source
1995 07 01 0.00 77 60 69 4 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 02 0.00 78 57 68 3 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 03 0.00 83 63 73 8 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 04 0.28 86 69 78 13 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 05 0.09 87 67 77 12 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 06 0.00 81 69 75 10 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 07 0.00 81 63 72 7 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 08 0.00 84 60 72 7 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 09 0.04 85 66 76 11 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 10 0.00 90 64 77 12 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 11 0.00 90 73 82 17 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 12 0.00 98 76 87 22 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 13 0.00 106 81 94 29 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 14 0.00 102 84 93 28 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 15 0.47 99 77 88 23 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 16 0.00 94 76 85 20 0.0 0 MID F
1995 07 17 0.00 89 73 81 16 0.0 0 MID F
——————————————————————————–
The really hot weather occurred from July 12 to July 16. The 106° F on July 13th set the record for the warmest July temperature since records began at Midway in 1928. Not only were the daytime temperatures high but the nighttime low temperatures were quite high (upper 70s and lower 80s) as well. Record humidity levels also accompanied the hot weather. The high humidity and high nighttime temperatures provided little relief from the heat.
Urban Heat Island
Another contributing factor in the heat wave is the so-called “urban heat island”. Urban heat islands are caused by the high concentration of buildings, parking lots, and roads in urban areas, which tend to absorb more heat in the day and radiate more heat at night than comparable rural sites. Therefore, urban areas usually experience a lot less cooling at night than do rural sites. Furthermore, temperature measurements at O’Hare Airport, a more suburban site, will not reflect the severity of the 1995 heat wave in the inner city.
Most of the victims of the 1995 heat wave were the elderly in the heart of the urban area. Many of the poorer older citizens either had no air conditioning or could not afford to operate the system they had. Many older citizens were also hesitant to open windows and doors at night for fear of crime. By contrast, in the heat waves of the 1930s, many residents slept outside in the parks or along the shore of Lake Michigan.
Other factors that contributed to the high number of deaths were an inadequate local heat wave warning system, power failures, inadequate ambulance service and hospital facilities, and the aging of the population in the urban areas. City officials did not release a heat emergency warning until June 15, the last day of the heat wave. Thus, such emergency measures as Chicago’s five cooling centers were not fully utilized. The medical system of Chicago was severely taxed as thousands were taken to local hospitals with heat-related problems. In some cases, fire trucks were used as substitute ambulances.
Unfortunately, Chicago will continue to be vulnerable to heat waves because of the urban heat island and the socio-economic makeup of the urban area (high percentage of lower-income elderly). However, the number of deaths may be reduced by: a) implementing an early-warning system that takes into account the local conditions, b) better define the heat island conditions associated with heat waves to improve forecasts, c) develop a uniform means for classifying heat-related deaths, and d) increase the research on the conditions of heat stress and heat waves
September 18th, 2005 at 8:29 am
In response to all that i read from all of you: Facts are this:
1. The plan was not used or deviated from.
2. People were stranded and some died.
3. They knew what would happen and no one can deny that.
4. Government on all levels failed these ppl.
5. Race is thought to be a factor in this.
6. Busses that were there were not utilized to get these people that wanted to leave to safety.
7. No government official on any level responded in time for some of these people.
8. There were people in that area who were able bodied and could of done something to help themselves.
9. A 6 yr old boy rescued many toddlers and 2 infants, on his own with no help from an adult. (cheers to the parents who taught the child to be independant!!!)
10. Maybe we can learn from the 6yr old who braved the devistation to help the ones that were unable to help themselves..
God Bless and be with the people who were effected by this storm.
I guess everything on this board is up for debate so here is my honest oppinion.
I believe if these people that were trapped would of banned together they could of helped themselves on some level.. and i wasnt there so i dont know.. maybe they did ban together to help eachother and themselves.. but I hope we all can learn from the 6yr old who knew that the younger kids depended on him to reach a safe place.. And he stood up against all that was thrown his way to see to it that he met his goal of saving these kids.. again Cheers to the parents who taught the child to be self-reliant. I hope my kids are as well taught when the time comes for them to stand on the soap box and take up the leadership rolls.
“And a little child shall lead them”… isnt that in the bible somewhere??????
*steps down from the soap box and smiles at the parents of all the children who are as self-reliant as this 6yr old child that saved lives!!!
September 18th, 2005 at 8:49 am
*steps back up on soap box…
OOPS forgot.. about the busses not being used..
well im sure that if the mayor wanted to of gotten those ppl out of there.. there would of been many ppl from the superdome to volunteer to drive those buses.. “who gives a rats ass if they had license to drive the buses.”
Quoting from the famous last words of my departed mother…”If u can drive a stick shift, You can drive anything.” And i belive her words to be true.. so i wonder why they didnt throw the keys to those buses out there and say hey.. if u can drive.. get these buses and get the hell outta here cause this place isnt safe for no one.. and that would of opened up two things.. ” A way out for those that are poor and couldnt go.. ” and “A choice for those who didnt want to go” and would of killed two birds with one stone..
But hey.. we all have 20/20 hind site.. maybe by chance we can learn from this and move on.. cause god knows we cant change what has already happened.. We need to put into effect, plans.. on all lvls.. workable plans with backup plans.. search out all possiblities of things that might change the order of things.. Hell if i would of been there.. i would of driven one of those big buses.. and i have never driven anything bigger than a pick up truck. (but i can drive a stick shift so nuttin is impossible)
need+desire=instincts kick in… it is logic.. when u are in any situation u do what is right at the time.. and no need for finger pointing or criticizing.. No point in that now.. there are still people there that need and want help.. find them.. do all u can for them.. and when the town is secure and all is back on track.. then evaluate the situation and make changes and point fingers.. but now still isnt the time to do the mud slinging..
Listen America.. i am american born.. and american raised.. I am very poor also.. I work my ars off every day to see to it that my children have their needs met, i do so on less than most of you would consider to be a decent wage…..but they appreicate what they have.
My children are like me.. *survivors* if u will. We will not go down without a fight…
So stop the name calling and the bickering.. and get out there and save some lives.. there are still people in buildings that need help.. example.. the seventy-one year old man that they rescued today.. that man must have a strong will to live.. god bless all of u.. and plz dont make all Americans look stupid .. we arent ALL so closed minded as to cast blame before all the results are in.. some of us wait for the “fat lady to sing”
September 18th, 2005 at 10:24 am
I dont like big bus and i can not lie that fact I cant deny, on the taxpayers dime stop the rhyme and send me a fuking limo. or else i’ll yell racism, get a gun have some fun find some white girls to rape act like an ape and go up in em
September 19th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
I know hindsight is 20/20 but Mayor Nagin was asked about the buses, both school and city buses, and his response was Yes, we had the buses but we couldn’t find anyone willing to drive them. What people don’t understand is that Hurricanes are unpredictable. Yes, it was projected to hit New Orleans and everyone evacuated but say it just sideswiped New Orleans and hit elsewhere but flooded roads getting into the area. You are not in New Orleans to go to work because New Orleans wasn’t hit so work isn’t closed and can’t get there either. No work No pay
September 22nd, 2005 at 3:58 am
The incompetent jackass mayor of New Orleans is to blame……he had no local or state police at the superdome, even with their past crime problems in hurricane evacuation. He also left the city’s evacuation buses in a low lying area to be flooded. He was a complete failure, but will be considered a hero by playing the race card.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:14 am
Nathan,
I have read newspaper reports that state otherwise. That they were police at the superdome, just not enough to control the people after the waiting for help became extensive.
September 25th, 2005 at 4:15 pm
Are you talking about evacuation AFTER the storm? Because transit buses were used prior to the storm to make rounds at pickups all over the city for the official evacuation shelters (there were several of them and are quite common in the south). Apparently city officials told FEMA they wanted to use school buses for evac after the storm and FEMA said no, that special buses were on the way. The State had started calling for buses on their own, was told again by FEMA Not To Worry, buses were on their way, but when the governor heard how far they were coming from (not from FEMA offices in the region), she told her point man, who had stopped calling around because of FEMA’s orders, to get back on it. FEMA had outsourced the job to a contractor, and that contractor failed miserably (my tax dollars at work).
There were around 300 schoolbuses (not 2000) and I imagine all buses were flooded and needed to dry out in the basin, the safest place for them. Despite the fact that unlike many many regions where evacuation is the ONLY possible response to a hurricane, evacuation from New Orleans is actually a FAILURE of hazard mitigation. As New Orleans goes, it is NOT THE SOLUTION. The basin, with high enough and properly reinforced flood walls, is actually the safest place to be in many hurricanes. Then the only people who would need to evacuate for a category Plus 3 hurricane would be those whose structures could not withstand such wind force. (And homes can be built special ways to withstand them). I was a little surprised by the gridlock out of Houston because it is all so open, as opposed to Long Island, where evacuation would be a joke. A nuclear power plant did not open on Long Island because when they tried to pretend they had a viable evacuation plan, people responded, “You’ve gotta be kidding.”
You cannot evacuate Long Island. There are like 3 bridges in total on one end of the island only, which are high-traffic areas under normal circumstances.
Speaking constructively for the after-action reports and analyses (which BTW occur after every hurricane because they are always chaotic so their protocols are by necessity dynamic), if there is covered space outside New Orleans to temporarily house buses overnight, at first blush that seems worthwhile. Not sure if such a structure exists, however, and considering how the Gretna police were shooting over the heads of people trying to LEAVE New Orleans, my guess is they would not be too keen on the possibility of flying buses during those winds. The basin of New Orleans IS safer in that respect, but obviously there is a need to dry out.
So that’s the extent of my research, which I admit is minimal. Louisiana is not my jurisdiction, however. My jurisdiction is federal, and there is no excuse for the DHS/FEMA lack of response. It’s like someone took that agency and set its standards back 30 years (my taxpayer dollars at work).
I reject a systems analysis that insists it is not insane to give an F for effort and an A, or a pass, for not showing up at all.
Personally my gut belief is they tried to “game” the hurricane the way they game everything. Hold back, let people scream for the president, have him come in like a conquering hero and then pour in the supplies and relief that should have been there 4-5 days before. Bush the Great. Kuleshov effect. Pair up two images to create one impression. Bush, Aid. Bush, Aid. (Kind of like 9/11, Iraq. 9/11, Iraq). Really cynical, but that’s Rove. Not an ethical bone in the body of that traitor.
It’s going to get a lot worse for this nation. 9/11 and Katrina are just the beginning.
Anyone really pissed by the above, save your energy. I dislike both parties, which have now melded into one, but I know who the jackboots are, who are also bankrupting this country to line their own pockets. I have so much medical research to do that I doubt I can back here to read anything.
September 25th, 2005 at 4:28 pm
P.S. Re:
The meals and water were sitting offshore on the USS Bataan (Northern Command). It had 9 million meals on board, the equivalent in water, and they can make their own water. Also have a 400 or 600-bed hospital. 1200 sailors. The USS Bataan was never fully deployed, then they were sent away. When asked by a BBC reporter why they did not deploy to do more of the relief work, they responded they have to wait for a presidential order.
September 25th, 2005 at 4:36 pm
You pay taxes, Denise? We had a contract. Read the DHS/FEMA website and the mission statement. Then check what you are paying into FICA. Jesus, I can’t believe how people open their pockets and say, ROB ME, PLEASE. No accountability. None. the bush cohort is making a fortune on the model of Socialize the Costs, Privitize the Profits. (AKA stealing when they are concerned).
No wonder they can keep it up with their sucker punches. We have too many suckers who won’t do the research to examine the federal/state relationship and see that this is a very sensible arrangement and it worked well when people who believed in the mission statement were there. But evil people can game ANYTHING. Especially if we have no problem with it and act like it’s no big deal when they violate the contract and kill people. This is JUST the beginning. If you are ten years old in 1990, you will be 50 before you retire the Savings and Loan bailout scam (also the Texas Mafia). Iraq will swallow up our children, FEMA malfeasance (gaming the hurricane) our grandchildren. But a few will become enormously wealthy for generations. Our money, THEIR false profits.
That’s just plain dumb.
September 28th, 2005 at 12:53 am
Ann,
Just so you know FICA is Social Security taxes and does not fund FEMA. In addition to the employee paying this tax the employer also pays an equal amount, 6.42% each.
Also deducted is Income Tax (this is what funds government) and medicare tax, again (1.45 % each) which provides health coverage to those on social security.
Fica is only used by the government when they use these funds for their other projects, which I would hope all of us know. Accountability is a major shortcoming of our government, but the only thing they seem to know how to do is conduct studies at the cost of millions that provide limited of any productive advice.
October 2nd, 2005 at 12:09 am
I ran across a photo of a parking lot full of school buses located at LaPlace. The sender of the photo stated that an entire convoy of buses, whose drivers had spent eight hours on the road to help transport people were told that the buses were not wanted because they lacked air conditioning and restrooms. Now that is either blind stupidity on the part of the officals, or disgraceul behavior on the part of those needing to be transported, whom ever made the statement. So the buses just sat unused.
October 18th, 2005 at 3:40 am
i think that they didnt use these buses because there were more african-americans in new orleans and thats why. they were probably thinking that if katrina would of came to lets say canada with all of the whites they would of at least thougt about commiting suiside. i thought they would at least no to drop our freakin food in the water. over 100 people are dead now and what are somepeople doing? sittin back eatin their bon bons and watchin the news shakin their heads like:i couldnt do any much more than the next guy. im tellin everybody that them people was just to lazy to think about martin luther king jr for 1 minute. what about being eqaul.
October 18th, 2005 at 9:18 pm
Ray Nagin, knowed 4 days in advance that Katrina was on her way.
He waited to sunday august 28 to warn about Katrina.
He had a avacuation plan;
The schoolbusses was in the evacuation plan, but Nagin decided that everyone that couldn’t evacuate by them self, should proceed to the Superdome or the Convention center. (wasn’t part of the plan)
about 30 000 went to the Superdome. There the tourists, old, sick, family with childrens had to share the same room with criminals.
There wasn’t organized at all.
–
USA haven’t got expedient at all… They make one’s stakes, better in the abroad, then they do at home.
After all.. Is a natural catastrophe, what USA and the world need, to see the class society. Black poor people was the one’s who suffered a heavy loss…Some of them were happy.. why? because that the world now could se the bad sides off USA, that they beforde hade hidden..
Swed
October 25th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
why wernt they used they could have saved lives insted of all those ineset people die i dont understan the world to day
December 4th, 2005 at 1:26 pm
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